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re: Another rape reported on campus
Posted on 3/1/15 at 7:24 pm to John Quincy Poodle
Posted on 3/1/15 at 7:24 pm to John Quincy Poodle
That's why states with the death penalty have a lower murder rate. The deterrence effect.
Except they don't.. because it's bullshite.
The only thing that more guns is a magical solution for is making money for gunmakers :P
The real world has this thing called "unintended consequences"
I would also like to venture that most rape victims would be raped EVEN IF THEY HAD A GUN because of how the situations play out. People freeze in reality. People don't think to pull a gun on someone that's in their dorm that they invited. Chances are the situation wouldn't allow for it.
Most people that HAVE guns can't use them correctly. Even trained professionals frick up and shoot themselves in classrooms while demonstrating gun safety.
I'm going to guess that you've never really spent any time dealing with rape and abuse victims. There are people out there that no amount of weapons will help.. and largely those are the ones who get targeted.
It's a retarded idea proposed by people who have no fricking grasp on reality and who think that guns magically solve everything when you can show world wide that they don't solve shite.
Try this.. a society of gun carrying law abiding citizens will have the same amount of crime as a society of non-gun carrying law abiding citizens.
The key is law abiding. You have too many fricking gun nuts in Springdale particularly for guns on the campus in fayetteville to be a good idea.
I don't mean average people, I mean GUN NUTS. The people that Timothy McVeigh raised money from to blow up a federal building.
Except they don't.. because it's bullshite.
The only thing that more guns is a magical solution for is making money for gunmakers :P
The real world has this thing called "unintended consequences"
I would also like to venture that most rape victims would be raped EVEN IF THEY HAD A GUN because of how the situations play out. People freeze in reality. People don't think to pull a gun on someone that's in their dorm that they invited. Chances are the situation wouldn't allow for it.
Most people that HAVE guns can't use them correctly. Even trained professionals frick up and shoot themselves in classrooms while demonstrating gun safety.
I'm going to guess that you've never really spent any time dealing with rape and abuse victims. There are people out there that no amount of weapons will help.. and largely those are the ones who get targeted.
It's a retarded idea proposed by people who have no fricking grasp on reality and who think that guns magically solve everything when you can show world wide that they don't solve shite.
Try this.. a society of gun carrying law abiding citizens will have the same amount of crime as a society of non-gun carrying law abiding citizens.
The key is law abiding. You have too many fricking gun nuts in Springdale particularly for guns on the campus in fayetteville to be a good idea.
I don't mean average people, I mean GUN NUTS. The people that Timothy McVeigh raised money from to blow up a federal building.
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Posted on 3/1/15 at 9:24 pm to John Quincy Poodle
quote:I don't see how concealed carry is going to help a girl who gets raped in her dorm room by someone she knows. She obviously trusted the guy enough to let her into the room. He took advantage of her trust and vulnerability while he was alone with her.
Concealed carry on campus ladies and gentleman.
I know you liberal ball sacks would be up in arms, but it could undoubtably prevent this type of thing. If the individual is 21 and legal to carry, of course.
Hell, two people were robbed at knife point down on campus 2 weeks ago. The world is changing, and Fayetteville it seems is changing too. Unfortunately.
Good luck drawing a gun on someone who you trust and who gets the jump on you.
Concealed carry isn't a magic pill.
This post was edited on 3/1/15 at 9:25 pm
Posted on 3/1/15 at 10:47 pm to Hog on the Hill
Not a magic pill, that is certainly correct...
However, firearms and knives are not even allowed on campus at the moment. That included dorm rooms. Maybe there would be a deterrence effect if there was the possibility that 1) your victim was armed or 2) someone nearby was
It is certainly not a magic pill, but contrary to what was stated on the first page, there IS a deterrence that occurs. It is a statistical fact.
Are you going to rob a house in neighborhood A) Where private gun ownership is banned or B) The neighborhood where private gun ownership is encouraged, and you are likely to end up on the wrong end of a gun barrel if you try to break in someplace?
Armed victims are no fun...
However, firearms and knives are not even allowed on campus at the moment. That included dorm rooms. Maybe there would be a deterrence effect if there was the possibility that 1) your victim was armed or 2) someone nearby was
It is certainly not a magic pill, but contrary to what was stated on the first page, there IS a deterrence that occurs. It is a statistical fact.
Are you going to rob a house in neighborhood A) Where private gun ownership is banned or B) The neighborhood where private gun ownership is encouraged, and you are likely to end up on the wrong end of a gun barrel if you try to break in someplace?
Armed victims are no fun...
Posted on 3/1/15 at 11:00 pm to John Quincy Poodle
EDIT: I must go now. My home planet needs me.
This post was edited on 3/1/15 at 11:00 pm
Posted on 3/1/15 at 11:08 pm to Latarian
Trillhog taking classes? Haven't seen him around in awhile. 
Posted on 3/2/15 at 6:30 am to John Quincy Poodle
quote:Or, it would result in the weapon being used against the victim by the aggressor. It goes both ways.
Not a magic pill, that is certainly correct...
However, firearms and knives are not even allowed on campus at the moment. That included dorm rooms. Maybe there would be a deterrence effect if there was the possibility that 1) your victim was armed or 2) someone nearby was
It is certainly not a magic pill, but contrary to what was stated on the first page, there IS a deterrence that occurs. It is a statistical fact.
Are you going to rob a house in neighborhood A) Where private gun ownership is banned or B) The neighborhood where private gun ownership is encouraged, and you are likely to end up on the wrong end of a gun barrel if you try to break in someplace?
Armed victims are no fun...
Furthermore, do you think an 18 year old girl who is suddenly being assaulted by a friend is going to escalate to deadly force against someone they trusted? Is that a decision they can make in the split second it would take to adequately defend herself? Is she going to fumble for the weapon and remember how to use it correctly and effectively?
A lot of sexual assaults by friends/acquaintances begin with consensual acts, but then things escalate beyond where a woman feels comfortable. It's hard to reach for a weapon in a situation like that. I speculate that this is especially true in a dorm room situation.
The bottom line is that weapons aren't a solution against sexual assault. I understand how it sounds appealing, but I think it creates more problems than it solves, and I don't think it will be that effective in deterring sexual violence against women.
I agree that we need to do more to protect women in our society, but I don't think this is the way it should be done. I generally support gun rights, but I don't think arming women in their dorms is the appropriate response to this kind of thing. I think it's missing the big picture.
This post was edited on 3/2/15 at 6:35 am
Posted on 3/2/15 at 11:48 am to Hog on the Hill
You must be 21 to carry a concealed handgun, so again, some 18 year old girl is not the subject here.
I understand what you are saying, but these incidents also occur outside of a dorm room... and with people that they do not know...
That is where firearms are the great equalizer. A 110lb girl is now equal to a 220lb man.
Also, the current law simply prohibits law abiding citizens from protecting themselves, or others, while on campus. Someone who is set on killing, raping, stealing, etc is not concerned with a misdemeanor citation for unlawfully carrying a handgun on campus. Banning them simply prevents law abiding citizens from utilizing them for self defense. Nothing more.
If you dont think that firearms are unlawfully carried by criminals on college campuses nation wide every day you are incredibly naive.
I understand what you are saying, but these incidents also occur outside of a dorm room... and with people that they do not know...
That is where firearms are the great equalizer. A 110lb girl is now equal to a 220lb man.
Also, the current law simply prohibits law abiding citizens from protecting themselves, or others, while on campus. Someone who is set on killing, raping, stealing, etc is not concerned with a misdemeanor citation for unlawfully carrying a handgun on campus. Banning them simply prevents law abiding citizens from utilizing them for self defense. Nothing more.
If you dont think that firearms are unlawfully carried by criminals on college campuses nation wide every day you are incredibly naive.
Posted on 3/2/15 at 12:35 pm to John Quincy Poodle
quote:So how the hell is concealed carry going to help in college dorms? There are very few 21+ year olds in college dorms.
You must be 21 to carry a concealed handgun, so again, some 18 year old girl is not the subject here.
It seems like you're using this situation to shoehorn guns onto college campuses, rather than trying to solve this particular problem. It seems... disingenuous.
This post was edited on 3/2/15 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 3/2/15 at 12:38 pm to John Quincy Poodle
quote:
John Quincy Poodle
How many people have you shot?
Posted on 3/2/15 at 1:32 pm to Hog on the Hill
quote:
So how the hell is concealed carry going to help in college dorms? There are very few 21+ year olds in college dorms.
This is true.
And it is acquaintance rape that is generally the problem on college campuses. Not sure this solves that
Posted on 3/2/15 at 1:39 pm to Stonehog
You guys realize "rape" these days includes any sexual encounter the female regrets the next day, right?
Of the three "rapes" reported, not a single one of the victims has pressed charges.
This is more a symptom of the "rape culture" hystrionics going around feminist circles than anything else.
Of the three "rapes" reported, not a single one of the victims has pressed charges.
This is more a symptom of the "rape culture" hystrionics going around feminist circles than anything else.
Posted on 3/2/15 at 2:36 pm to Hog on the Hill
quote:
So how the hell is concealed carry going to help in college dorms? There are very few 21+ year olds in college dorms.
It seems like you're using this situation to shoehorn guns onto college campuses, rather than trying to solve this particular problem. It seems... disingenuous.
I am not saying it 100% solves the problem of rape in dorms. But I am saying that allowing carry on campus can prevent robberies, rapes outside of dorms, etc. It is simply another tool that gives the good guys leverage against those who wish to do them harm.
Nothing disingenuous about it.
Posted on 3/2/15 at 2:39 pm to Stonehog
quote:
How many people have you shot?
I see no reason to answer that, and not sure where that comes into this discussion...
If I have shot more people than I care to think about, that would somehow validate my argument? If I had never shot anyone it would somehow make my opinion irrelevant?
Posted on 3/2/15 at 2:51 pm to John Quincy Poodle
There were a total of 11,101 gun homicides (15,953 total homicides) in the US in 2011.
There were a total of 19,766 gun suicides (2011: 38,285 total suicides) in the US in 2011.
There were a total of 851 accidental gun deaths in the US in 2011.
In 2010 there were a total of 617 justifiable homicides (232 non-police) with guns.
Addendum:
Police Officer line of duty deaths by firearm
Gunfire: 68
Gunfire (Accidental): 5
Now, when you have a high pressure situation such as college with drinking, drugs and pressure to make grades... Adding guns to that mix is just plain dumb.
There were a total of 19,766 gun suicides (2011: 38,285 total suicides) in the US in 2011.
There were a total of 851 accidental gun deaths in the US in 2011.
In 2010 there were a total of 617 justifiable homicides (232 non-police) with guns.
Addendum:
Police Officer line of duty deaths by firearm
Gunfire: 68
Gunfire (Accidental): 5
Now, when you have a high pressure situation such as college with drinking, drugs and pressure to make grades... Adding guns to that mix is just plain dumb.
This post was edited on 3/2/15 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 3/2/15 at 3:07 pm to Killean
Meh...Adding guns legally does nothing to back up your numbers...basically, you adding those numbers is pointless.
A criminal will get his hands on a gun legal or not.
A criminal will get his hands on a gun legal or not.
Posted on 3/2/15 at 3:15 pm to John Quincy Poodle
Knowing how many tards there seemed to be in the dorms when I lived in one not too many years ago the last thing that I think should be added to the mix are more guns 
Obviously there are guns on campus already but imo the University wouldn't benefit from giving people permission to have them on campus
Obviously there are guns on campus already but imo the University wouldn't benefit from giving people permission to have them on campus
Posted on 3/2/15 at 3:35 pm to Hawgeye
You're twice as likely to be killed by your own gun as you are by someone else's gun. That seems pretty fricking relevant to me
Adding guns into a place filled with IRRESPONSIBLE people is dumb.
Adding guns into a place filled with IRRESPONSIBLE people is dumb.
Posted on 3/2/15 at 3:48 pm to Killean
You posted homicide numbers nationwide. Which, proves nothing other than people die at the hands of criminals all the time. Everyone knows that. A pure killer is going to kill with whatever he/she can get his hands on.
Now, go fetch the total numbers of crimes that have not happened, based on the victim being a permitted gun owner.
Again, arguing that there are all of a sudden going to be more guns on a college campus is stupid. There are guns on campus now, illegally. As stated earlier, a criminal will have a gun whether it's legal or not.
What makes someone irresponsible? As a youth, I had handled a gun since I was around 7 years old. At 18 years old, I was a very responsible gun owner.
Irresponsible people are allowed to drive. Irresponsible people are allowed to vote. Irresponsible people are allowed to drink.
You can't just use irresponsible people as your excuse.
35,200 people died in 2013 from car accidents...That makes the vehicle the most deadly weapon in the nation...What should be done about those irresponsible 18-23 year olds?
Now, go fetch the total numbers of crimes that have not happened, based on the victim being a permitted gun owner.
Again, arguing that there are all of a sudden going to be more guns on a college campus is stupid. There are guns on campus now, illegally. As stated earlier, a criminal will have a gun whether it's legal or not.
What makes someone irresponsible? As a youth, I had handled a gun since I was around 7 years old. At 18 years old, I was a very responsible gun owner.
Irresponsible people are allowed to drive. Irresponsible people are allowed to vote. Irresponsible people are allowed to drink.
You can't just use irresponsible people as your excuse.
35,200 people died in 2013 from car accidents...That makes the vehicle the most deadly weapon in the nation...What should be done about those irresponsible 18-23 year olds?
Posted on 3/2/15 at 4:36 pm to Hawgeye
Ahem... Just for conversational services...
The @arkansashouse votes 66 to 25 in favor of bill allowing college faculty & staff to concealed carry on campus. Bill now heads to Senate.
The @arkansashouse votes 66 to 25 in favor of bill allowing college faculty & staff to concealed carry on campus. Bill now heads to Senate.
Posted on 3/2/15 at 5:00 pm to Razorback Reverend
quote:
You posted homicide numbers nationwide. Which, proves nothing other than people die at the hands of criminals all the time. Everyone knows that. A pure killer is going to kill with whatever he/she can get his hands on.
Now, go fetch the total numbers of crimes that have not happened, based on the victim being a permitted gun owner.
Again, arguing that there are all of a sudden going to be more guns on a college campus is stupid. There are guns on campus now, illegally. As stated earlier, a criminal will have a gun whether it's legal or not.
What makes someone irresponsible? As a youth, I had handled a gun since I was around 7 years old. At 18 years old, I was a very responsible gun owner.
Irresponsible people are allowed to drive. Irresponsible people are allowed to vote. Irresponsible people are allowed to drink.
You can't just use irresponsible people as your excuse.
35,200 people died in 2013 from car accidents...That makes the vehicle the most deadly weapon in the nation...What should be done about those irresponsible 18-23 year olds?
Well shite.. you've convinced me. We'll all be magically safer with more guns around people who are drinking a lot and acting like college kids.
There's absolutely zero relevance at all to simply having a gun dramatically increasing your chances of dying to a gun.
Hell, If everybody owned a gun nobody would ever be murdered.
We should probably let people smoke everywhere too, like in daycares and in hospitals. I mean, responsible smokers have that right and it only kills 480,000 people a year including people from secondhand smoke.
Why do I mention cigarettes? Because unlike cars, which are very much a necessity in many parts of the nation, they're an item that isn't necessary for conducting day to day business. Hell, public transportation is safer than driving your own car. Flying is safer than driving your own car and those sorts of things should be encouraged...
There is not one single fricking solitary documented piece of evidence anywhere in the fricking world that shows that widespread gun ownership reduces your likelihood of dying. In fact, there's a great deal of evidence that shows the opposite. I thought the goal was to make college students safer, maybe I was wrong. Maybe it's more important that everyone has a gun everywhere all the time, then it won't matter whether it's actually safer... because we'll all feel like billy badass and when anybody gives you any lip you can pull out your piece and act a fool
Allowing guns on campus will INCREASE gun mortality from all sources on campus.
I have a question. How many university presidents went to the legislature and said hey, I think you should allow all of our students to carry weapons on campus, we really think that would be a good idea?
Do a little research, find some real fricking numbers and maybe figure out what the actual problem is before you go off half-cocked.
Feelings don't mean shite. Run the numbers, find the data. All this bullshite about crime being worse now and there being more violence is just that.. bullshite. It's safer now than it has been since they started documenting crime statistics. Your own gut feelings are almost invariably WRONG.
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