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re: How similar is Rick Ray's situation to Croom's situation?
Posted on 2/24/15 at 8:23 am to DynastyDawg
Posted on 2/24/15 at 8:23 am to DynastyDawg
quote:This is my exact thought. I don't understand why we didn't try to make a big splash hire for a respectable program such as ourselves. I thought the Ray hire was a dumb one from the beginning, but what's done is done. I was/still am rooting for Ray, but I think you'd have to be an idiot to think he's our long term guy, so why keep wasting time with him.
3) Ultimately I just want to see our program thriving. That is all. Don't care who does it, where it comes from, I just want it done. That being said I wish we would nutt up just one time and go after a big fish. Throw out the ultimate money, something no one could refuse and reel in a 2500 lbs Marlin like Shaka Smart. Now I understand the feasibility of said move but it doesn't make me want it any less.
quote:Explain how you disagree.
Back away from the keyboard slowly.
This post was edited on 2/24/15 at 8:25 am
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Posted on 2/24/15 at 8:30 am to MSUbulldogs03
quote:
so why keep wasting time with him
Because even if he fails you have to show future coaches you will give them ample time to turn things around. You can't hire a great coach and show them that you have no leash when they're walking into a terrible program.
quote:
Explain how you disagree.
You're accusation about him contradicting himself. The two events aren't mutually exclusive. The biggest reason was off the court issues. On court issues and player development were a distant second in reasoning to remove a long time successful coach.
Posted on 2/24/15 at 11:57 am to DynastyDawg
True. The other side of the argument is the longer State struggles the less attractive we become. Not to say we were very attractive after we fired Stans, but I think it was more so than it is now.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 9:52 am to DynastyDawg
quote:
It is why I want Rick Ray to succeed so much, along with just seeing the program do well. He was never given a shot so I will be in his corner until the end,
I do not understand this. Ray has been given a shot and most likely will get another one next year. If he had been fired after one year I would agree with you but after 4 years no one should argue he was not given a chance. What has Ray not been given he needs to succeed? He has excellent facilities, a ample recruiting budget, and a fertile recruiting ground, the rest is up to him and so far he has not handled it very well.
I also wish Coach Ray could get it together but have little confidence that it is going to happen given his and his teams past performance.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:12 am to cave canem
The big money people are gone. Those people that helped land Stans all those recruits. Yeah they are gone. The fans have yet to show up to games. The fans didn't want Ray from the start. Too many fans have their heads stuck up their arses wishing for him to fail that in the 3 years they haven't seen the improvement. Yes it's been small but it's improvement considering the dumpster fire Stans left.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:29 am to ChargerDog91
quote:
The big money people are gone. Those people that helped land Stans all those recruits. Yeah they are gone. The fans have yet to show up to games. The fans didn't want Ray from the start. Too many fans have their heads stuck up their arses wishing for him to fail that in the 3 years they haven't seen the improvement. Yes it's been small but it's improvement considering the dumpster fire Stans left.
Fans neither shoot, pass, nor defend, although fan support has certainly dropped it is still well over many mid-majors that are succeeding just fine. We are still top 75 or so in attendance no matter how much it seems impossible. Now the arguement that Ray has no one to buy players for him may have a bit of merit.
Why is it the Ray proponents can not discuss anything without including Stansbury? Ray should be judged on his own merit after 3 seasons not against the success or failure of his predecessor.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 10:59 am to cave canem
Because the reason we even have Ray and not a better name than that is Stansbury. Because if he hadn't hurt the program so much his last few years we might've not had multiple candidates tell us no because they knew this job was tainted.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 11:04 am to cave canem
quote:
Why is it the Ray proponents can not discuss anything without including Stansbury?
It generally goes the other way as well. It is hard to discuss Ray without some people popping up the glory days of Stans.
Ray was put in a tough position when he came to MSU. On the other hand, if it had been a good situation at the time, Ray would have never had a chance to get the job.
MSU to name coach: "Coach, we would like to talk to you about taking our head coaching position."
Name coach to MSU:"LOL. No."
Posted on 2/25/15 at 11:06 am to ChargerDog91
One day, when we hit the final four again, we'll all be able to sit around and laugh about the times we spent arguing over this shite.
Everyone is fairly well set in their opinions on the matter.
I hope HJJ has read this thread and got a few well deserved chuckles out of it.
Everyone is fairly well set in their opinions on the matter.
I hope HJJ has read this thread and got a few well deserved chuckles out of it.
Posted on 2/25/15 at 11:21 am to ChargerDog91
quote:
Because the reason we even have Ray and not a better name than that is Stansbury. Because if he hadn't hurt the program so much his last few years we might've not had multiple candidates tell us no because they knew this job was tainted.
Even if every word of that is correct and true at what point does Ray become responsible for his team? Do we keep him 4 years and still blame Stansbury? How about 10 years? Will that be long enough?
Do you feel Ray is owed something? I mean his salary puts him very comfortably in the 1% club, he got a shot at a major program what is he owed?
Posted on 2/26/15 at 7:20 am to cave canem
quote:
I do not understand this.
Fan support. Fan support.
Posted on 2/26/15 at 7:23 am to cave canem
quote:
Fans neither shoot, pass, nor defend,
So if our football team would have only had about 20k fans at our home games this year, you think the results would have been the same?
Posted on 2/26/15 at 7:23 am to cave canem
quote:
How about 10 years? Will that be long enough?
Over exaggeration and sarcasm. That will get you the answer you're looking for.
Posted on 2/26/15 at 8:50 am to ChargerDog91
quote:We nut up and throw the right amount of money at somebody, and we get a respectable name.
Because the reason we even have Ray and not a better name than that is Stansbury.
Posted on 2/26/15 at 8:54 am to cave canem
quote:Fans affect how hard a team plays, the opponents shooting ability, the opponents tendency to turn the ball over, and can change the momentum of a game. Insinuating fans don't play a role in games is asinine.
Fans neither shoot, pass, nor defend
Posted on 2/26/15 at 9:24 am to DynastyDawg
No more of an exaggeration than needing Riley Benock on this team. You knew what I meant. Now frick off
Posted on 2/26/15 at 9:31 am to cave canem
After this season it's all on Ray. This is the last season any blame can fall on Stans. He's partially responsible now.
Again I hope he finally gets rid of that aberration that is George Brooks and gets someone in here who can coach the bigs.
Again I hope he finally gets rid of that aberration that is George Brooks and gets someone in here who can coach the bigs.
Posted on 2/26/15 at 9:59 am to ChargerDog91
We need some BIGS before we get a decent BIGS coach. The BIGS!!!
Posted on 2/26/15 at 10:05 am to cave canem
quote:
No more of an exaggeration than needing Riley Benock on this team.
Maybe you need a lesson on the definition of exaggeration, because I don't think you know what it means.
quote:
You knew what I meant.
I know that you don't understand that Ray did everything he could in the first two years and that in his third year he is responsible. You don't fire a coach after 1 bad season that he is responsible for.
quote:
Now frick off
No.
Posted on 2/26/15 at 1:50 pm to TaxmanMSU
I'm just saying in regards to Gavin Ware. No way he should be so soft in his Junior year. Far too talented to be so inconsistent. Oliver Black and Fallou Ndoye are both capable of being decent bigs.
We won't see a legit PF until Ray is gone and may not for awhile. A stretch 4 is becoming the main go to at that position. Which Coach Hollender is very good at working with. You will see more Colin Borchert, Roquez Johnson's, Travis Daniels type players as long as Ray is here and mostly any coach that brings in a motion offense. Having 4 and 5's that can stretch the defense out the perimeter can cause quite a few mismatches and open lanes. In theory it will work but our problem is we have a big (Gavin) that is too inconsistent down low to keep his big with him away from the defense and be able to take advantage when his defender helps.
We won't see a legit PF until Ray is gone and may not for awhile. A stretch 4 is becoming the main go to at that position. Which Coach Hollender is very good at working with. You will see more Colin Borchert, Roquez Johnson's, Travis Daniels type players as long as Ray is here and mostly any coach that brings in a motion offense. Having 4 and 5's that can stretch the defense out the perimeter can cause quite a few mismatches and open lanes. In theory it will work but our problem is we have a big (Gavin) that is too inconsistent down low to keep his big with him away from the defense and be able to take advantage when his defender helps.
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