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re: Who was more brutal, Hitler's SS or the Italian mafia?
Posted on 2/14/16 at 12:05 pm to The Silverback
Posted on 2/14/16 at 12:05 pm to The Silverback
The Third Reich has them in methodology and sheer scale. By a long shot.
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Posted on 2/14/16 at 12:08 pm to auggie
quote:
The Khmer Rouge.
Definitely more brutal, just not on the sheer SS scale
Posted on 2/14/16 at 2:03 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
The SS and it's not even close.
This
Posted on 2/14/16 at 2:15 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:
Definitely more brutal, just not on the sheer SS scale
To me, that is what makes it more scary.
Happened in small(death toll is millions) area,the rest of the world,just stood around,waiting for somebody else to do something?
I can tell you,I never knew about any of it,until it was already over.
We aint talking about stuff in the dark ages.The people that knew,kept the info away from the people that should have known.
I have no doubt,the decent people of the world,could have(and would have) stopped it,however,a populace that thinks for itself,that's not what you want,if you are a politician.
What is going on in this world right now,that they don't tell us about?
People are being slaughtered,enslaved,genocide on massive scales,atrocities all over the place ,but somehow,we are focused on ISIS,maybe because they have more video links?
We have a country full of good Soldiers and Marines,and I don't know about the rest of y'all,but I didn't do what I did,so I would end up as a puppet,and being turned against each other. End Game may be happening,and the weapon that won? The information super highway.
What to leave in,what to leave out...
This post was edited on 2/14/16 at 3:09 pm
Posted on 2/14/16 at 2:21 pm to Kentucker
It's important for the post war American narrative to demonize the Nazis as much as possible. The body count and piles of bodies would have been the same in the U.S. if we had lost the war or been invaded. A conquered people aren't feeding and sending medical care to people in labor camps.
The Soviet communists slaughtered so many more people and did much more heinous things. We sided with the commies, so we aren't supposed to be as interested in their atrocities.
The Soviet communists slaughtered so many more people and did much more heinous things. We sided with the commies, so we aren't supposed to be as interested in their atrocities.
Posted on 2/14/16 at 3:29 pm to wmr
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The Soviets committed some heinous acts against their own people and we're never held accountable for the reason above.
Posted on 2/14/16 at 4:01 pm to wmr
quote:
It's important for the post war American narrative to demonize the Nazis as much as possible. The body count and piles of bodies would have been the same in the U.S. if we had lost the war or been invaded. A conquered people aren't feeding and sending medical care to people in labor camps.
The Soviet communists slaughtered so many more people and did much more heinous things. We sided with the commies, so we aren't supposed to be as interested in their atrocities.
This is true ... and bringing it even closer to home we need look no further than the yankee's Camp Douglas, during the Civil War. While the South had excuses for Andersonville ... the north had no such excuses.
War, on a large scale, is always cruel and wicked. Revenge is always the great motivator once it begins and after it ends .... it's a vicious cycle. It's also human nature and part of the process.
And it will happen again - it always does. As a species, when we give ourselves to government control, we are doomed to repeat our mistakes.
Posted on 2/14/16 at 4:39 pm to The Silverback
What is the purpose?
Cosa Nostra isn't even the meanest in organized crime
The SS is the obvious answer. Now if the SA would've been allowed to stick around there maybe a question. They were just criminals whose only objective was terrorism and chaos.
Cosa Nostra isn't even the meanest in organized crime
The SS is the obvious answer. Now if the SA would've been allowed to stick around there maybe a question. They were just criminals whose only objective was terrorism and chaos.
Posted on 2/14/16 at 4:41 pm to scrooster
What sets Nazism apart is its deliberate, planned program to exterminate a people who were deemed deserving of this fate for ... simply existing.
Consider:
• German and European Jews were not at war with Germany.
• They had done nothing, such as armed revolt, to provoke hostility.
• They were not engaged in undermining the German state.
• They did en masse break any laws of state.
• They were, prior to Nazism, legal citizens of Germany as fully as any non-Jewish German.
• German Jews, as a group, engaged in no behavior whatsoever that would give rise to any legitimate form of retaliation by any civilized nation in the world.
Again, what makes the Nazi–Jewish situation different is that a people were judged deserving of annihilation for simply ... simply being.
Consider:
• German and European Jews were not at war with Germany.
• They had done nothing, such as armed revolt, to provoke hostility.
• They were not engaged in undermining the German state.
• They did en masse break any laws of state.
• They were, prior to Nazism, legal citizens of Germany as fully as any non-Jewish German.
• German Jews, as a group, engaged in no behavior whatsoever that would give rise to any legitimate form of retaliation by any civilized nation in the world.
Again, what makes the Nazi–Jewish situation different is that a people were judged deserving of annihilation for simply ... simply being.
Posted on 2/14/16 at 5:41 pm to The Silverback
Mafia's get a bad rap...but they do quite a bit of good actually. They do tend to stand up for the innocent...in a necessary evil kind of way. Sure, they have their part in illegal activities..but nothing near what Hitler did. Mafia's have codes of honor and lines that aren't to be crossed.
Posted on 2/14/16 at 5:47 pm to Mars duMorgue
quote:
Again, what makes the Nazi–Jewish situation different is that a people were judged deserving of annihilation for simply ... simply being.
The number of Jews who died in Nazi concentration camps continues to overshadow the other groups that were systematically exterminated:
Gypsies
Poles
Other Slavs
People with mental or physical handicaps
Jehovah's Witnesses
Gays
Dissenting clergy
Communists
Socialists
Political enemies
The Nazi State was deliberately practicing eugenics on a giant and accelerated scale. Their ultimate goal was to eliminate any person who was seen to be outside the "Aryan Race."
In every country they conquered, they began the extermination process. There was no negotiation. Undesirables were sent to the ovens.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 12:17 am to Mars duMorgue
quote:
Again, what makes the Nazi–Jewish situation different is that a people were judged deserving of annihilation for simply ... simply being.
Yes, I agree, from our perspective.
But that was not necessarily the perception of the Germans, or even the Russians, at the time.
People seem to forget that the Aliyah because in Russia 60 years before WWII ... and for good reason.
Jews were not really welcomed anywhere, not in all of Europe. Thing about it ... and think about why?
The answer is simple.
It's just that Germany, via the Nazis, took it to a whole new level.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 8:44 am to The Silverback
Mafia considered violence a tool to achieve its criminal aims. If they didn't have to use it, so much the better. The Nazi regime set out to exterminate large swaths of humanity in a systematic fashion to further their ends.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 4:22 pm to scrooster
quote:
Jews were not really welcomed anywhere, not in all of Europe.
And yet, nowhere in Europe had any nation ever attempted the planned, systematic, complete extermination of its or any other nation's Jewish population–until the Nazi stranglehold on Germany.
During World War 2, even the non-Jewish Poles and Russians were not singled out for mass extinction. Even they had a purpose in the Nazi scheme of things as laborers and menials.
But the Jews? The plan for them was simple: not a single living one between the coast of Ireland and the Ural Mountains.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 10:11 pm to The Silverback
quote:
Friend of mine swears the mafia was more brutal to those who were rats, but I don't think they come close to what some of the Nazis had done during WWII
The Mafia only killed those who were involved and knew what was at stake most of the time, and most of the time it was shooting or strangling.
Nazis were known to use Jewish babies as skeet shootings...they'd toss them in the air and shoot them. Nazis were way worse and killed many innocent people.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 10:16 pm to Crusty Juggler
Hell the Cartel and gangs like the Vice Lords are more brutal than the Mafia.
The Mafia were more businessmen than gangsters, and had an organized set of rules. They had harsh punishments for breaking those rules, but they really weren't that brutal. Most of the illegal business that made the Mafia so rich is now basically legal, at least in some places if not all (loan sharking, alcohol, gambling, prostitution). The only one that isn't legal in most places is prostitution but it's really not enforced, just go to backpage.com
The Mafia were more businessmen than gangsters, and had an organized set of rules. They had harsh punishments for breaking those rules, but they really weren't that brutal. Most of the illegal business that made the Mafia so rich is now basically legal, at least in some places if not all (loan sharking, alcohol, gambling, prostitution). The only one that isn't legal in most places is prostitution but it's really not enforced, just go to backpage.com
Posted on 2/15/16 at 11:12 pm to The Silverback
SS
Not even close
Not even close
Posted on 2/15/16 at 11:45 pm to Mars duMorgue
quote:
And yet, nowhere in Europe had any nation ever attempted the planned, systematic, complete extermination of its or any other nation's Jewish population–until the Nazi stranglehold on Germany.
During World War 2, even the non-Jewish Poles and Russians were not singled out for mass extinction. Even they had a purpose in the Nazi scheme of things as laborers and menials.
But the Jews? The plan for them was simple: not a single living one between the coast of Ireland and the Ural Mountains.
Again, it's been going on for millennium.
They've found 5,000 year old mass graves in Germany with 1,000s of victims who were tortured to death before being murdered ... leg and arm bones broken before having their skulls smash - even the infants.
The Bible tells of many battles where the Jews ordered the total annihilation of their enemies, women and children included, by the 1000s. Moses and Joshua were both mass murders on the scale of anyone else in history .... if you believe the Bible.
Ever hear of Masada? Or how about the various battles for Jerusalem? Constantinople ring a bell? All resulted in either the systematic murder of 1000s or, in the case of Masada, suicide en masse.
It's what we do as a species to eliminate our enemies if they either fail to capitulate or are deemed so diametrically opposed to a particular way of life that they become a destructive influence in the minds of the attackers ... or sometimes groups of people simply push too far.
It's always about planned, systematic and complete extermination ... the Russians, under Lenin and Stalin, killed far more people than did the Germans in all likelihood, and so did Mao in China.
And it will happen again.
When the U.S. is as weak as we are now, the world is ripe for another genocide somewhere. Matter of fact it's happening in the middle east this very moment - being perpetrated by ISIS and Al Qaeda.
No one cares until it comes to their doorstep and then it's usually too late.
History has proven that it happens over and over again.
A million Rwandan's were killed while Bill Clinton turned a blind eye in the 90s ... where is the outrage? LINK
Posted on 2/17/16 at 10:28 pm to deltaland
Germans killed thousands of Jews during the black plague ... ordered by the pope. So many that when the prince of Poland fell in love with a Jewish girl and offered the Jews sanctuary, they migrated to Poland ... and 700 years later the Germans came and took them and started killing them again.
Posted on 2/18/16 at 6:09 pm to scrooster
quote:
Again, it's been going on for millennium.
I confined my remarks to the planned annihilation of European Jewry between the years 1939-1945. As I wrote:
And yet, nowhere in Europe had any nation ever attempted the planned, systematic, complete extermination of its or any other nation's Jewish population–until the Nazi stranglehold on Germany.
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