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re: US sending tanks to Europe in response to Russia...
Posted on 6/23/15 at 10:09 pm to Johnny B Goode
Posted on 6/23/15 at 10:09 pm to Johnny B Goode
Russia tryna say sumn?
1
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:30 pm to TbirdSpur2010
It's funny ... but not really.
Putin is doing exactly what Hitler did, inch by inch waiting to see if anyone is really going to challenge him.
I suspect he'll do a lot more before anyone does.
Putin is doing exactly what Hitler did, inch by inch waiting to see if anyone is really going to challenge him.
I suspect he'll do a lot more before anyone does.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:31 pm to CrimsonChin
quote:
Hate him if you want to but Putin has been and will be a great leader. I wish our top leadership were half the president that Putin is. The man will get what he wants.
Depends on your definition of great leader. Putin has brass ones, for sure. But I think he's ruthless, corrupt and has no conscience when it comes to his goals. I don't trust him for a second.
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:34 pm to scrooster
quote:
Putin is doing exactly what Hitler did, inch by inch waiting to see if anyone is really going to challenge him.
Putin was KGB, right? I think he would love to go down in history as the guy who restored the USSR. With the added benefit of a path to a warm water port through the Middle East. He is no friend to us, in any way.
This post was edited on 6/23/15 at 11:35 pm
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:40 pm to scrooster
quote:
It's funny ... but not really.
Putin is doing exactly what Hitler did, inch by inch waiting to see if anyone is really going to challenge him.
I suspect he'll do a lot more before anyone doe
What exactly has he accomplished? A lot of people have this weird hard on for Russia that I just don't understand.
''The Red Bear will rise again!''
''Putin's like Hitler!!''
Except this thing where no one is afraid of Russia.
They're not going to nuke everyone, and I know this because we're not gonna do it.
The EU is just completely gunshy to go back to conflict no matter what, but if they had any show of force, literally anything, Russia would back down.
Their tanks and attack planes are lightyears behind us in both resources and technology.
Their navy is a fricking joke compared to our own.
American Navy
Size
326,046 active duty personnel[3]
107,115 reserve personnel[3]
271 ships[3]
2,641 aircraft [4]
10 aircraft carriers
9 amphibious assault ships
10 amphibious transport docks
12 dock landing ships
22 cruisers
62 destroyers
3 frigates
4 littoral combat ships
71 submarines
Russian Navy
133,000 (2005), incl Marines[1]
280 ships
254 aircraft[2]
1 aircraft carrier
22 landing ship tanks
4 cruisers
15 destroyers
4 frigates
74 corvettes
46 submarines
34 Mine countermeasures vessels
Putin doesn't want all out war, and we don't want to push him. We want the EU to do something, we're more concerned about them than we are with Russia.
frick's sake, get off of Russia's nuts.
This post was edited on 6/23/15 at 11:43 pm
Posted on 6/23/15 at 11:54 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Posted on 6/24/15 at 12:11 am to semotruman
quote:
Putin was KGB, right? I think he would love to go down in history as the guy who restored the USSR. With the added benefit of a path to a warm water port through the Middle East. He is no friend to us, in any way.
You're absolutely correct. He is no friend to us ... but remember this? The famous "open mic slip" by Obama? "Wait until after my election and I'll have more flexibility ...." video mash here
Posted on 6/24/15 at 12:37 am to scrooster
Column by column comparisons of our firepower compared to Russia's are silly. They aren't lined up across from each other on a grid. You need to be able to call upon that firepower instantly and deploy it for it to be meaningful.
Russia can easily slip into border countries, overwhelm them, and then sue for peace. None of you would consider that a victory, right? Do you think the U.S. has the stomach for war on foreign soil for foreign territory?
This is a more prickly situation than I think the American public gives credit. And, though I'm a staunch liberal, I think on foreign policy Obama has been very weak.
Russia can easily slip into border countries, overwhelm them, and then sue for peace. None of you would consider that a victory, right? Do you think the U.S. has the stomach for war on foreign soil for foreign territory?
This is a more prickly situation than I think the American public gives credit. And, though I'm a staunch liberal, I think on foreign policy Obama has been very weak.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 12:45 am to semotruman
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/24/15 at 7:44 am
Posted on 6/24/15 at 7:25 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
Just a bunch of saber rattling from Putin. He doesn't want an all out war. The Russian economy is struggling with the sanctions and oil prices. He needs to look strong to fan the flames of nationalism, but a war is a losing proposition for Russia.
They'll just hold the stalemate as they have the EU over a barrel with natural gas and the USA doesn't want to get sucked in to yet another conflict. So all sides posture, but the end result will be no military action.
They'll just hold the stalemate as they have the EU over a barrel with natural gas and the USA doesn't want to get sucked in to yet another conflict. So all sides posture, but the end result will be no military action.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 7:28 am to OBReb6
quote:
especially in the Middle East.
Where Europe gets its oil.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 7:34 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Russian Navy
Unlike the american Navy, they don't need the fleet as they are a land / artillery type Army. US may have a big navy but once it gets dispersed across the worlds oceansit is no longer big in each part. Germany did not really have a Navy and it did not stop them from rolling over Europe and Africa.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 9:38 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Except this thing where no one is afraid of Russia.
They're not going to nuke everyone, and I know this because we're not gonna do it.
The EU is just completely gunshy to go back to conflict no matter what, but if they had any show of force, literally anything, Russia would back down.
Their tanks and attack planes are lightyears behind us in both resources and technology.
Their navy is a fricking joke compared to our own.
American Navy
I agree with your general point. None of the major western powers are too terribly concerned or feel threatened by Russia but there are a couple of things worth noting.
#1 - There are countries that are afraid of Russia. The small Baltic states like Latvia, Estonia, and Lithuania see what's happened to Ukraine and Georgia (yes, I know Georgia bears a good deal of responsibility) and remember that they've not been long out from under the Soviet boot. They can't help but wonder if anyone would stand for them if Putin got up one morning and decided to take a T-90 on a nostalgic drive to Riga. Sending a token force is almost completely about making them feel safe and secure with their new western friends rather than trying to intimidate Putin.
#2 - The Russian Navy hasn't been worth shait since Peter the Great kicked the bucket. Even during the cold war, the only thing they had that was a reasonable blue water threat was their submarine force but that doesn't mean much. The lack of a meaningful naval force doesn't really mean much when you don't have to rely on a shipping fleet and only have a limited amount of warmwater shoreline to protect.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 10:36 am to Cheese Grits
quote:
Unlike the american Navy, they don't need the fleet as they are a land / artillery type Army. US may have a big navy but once it gets dispersed across the worlds oceansit is no longer big in each part. Germany did not really have a Navy and it did not stop them from rolling over Europe and Africa.
It's a different world now -- speed accounts for everything. Having 10 aircraft carriers means deployment of high speed, technological aircraft that can dominate large areas with little effort.
Rolling your tanks through Siberia to try and defend your massive coast line isn't plausible. The fact is: Without a strong Navy, you can't fight coast to coast, your forced to sit and wait for resources and reinforcements because aside from Air, Naval movement is the best movement.
Secondly: Aside from insignificant countries, the rest of the world realizes that Russia is being held up like a bunch of cards.
Bad economy now, despite its ratings.
Military force is becoming outdated (even on land).
People aren't nearly as supportive as that government would have you believe.
They're literally just chest thumping to get some attention, and people obsessed with older times seem more than willing to eat out of their palm.
Putin's got nothing, he knows it, we know it, everyone knows it. But, it sells stories because people who are completely unfamiliar with global logistics concerning warfare aren't really looking into it.
Only thing that scares me is that he has nuclear weapons, aside from that, they're nothin'.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 10:39 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Aside from nuclear weapons, Russia has little muscle to flex.
True for the most part, but they also possess a metric shite ton of tanks.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 10:42 am to SamuelClemens
I have no interest in seeing Obama riding horses with his shirt off and practicing kung fu.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 10:43 am to brodeo
quote:
possess a metric shite ton of tanks.
Well mebbe the USAF ought hold the frick up on sending the A-10s to the desert just yet.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 10:46 am to semotruman
quote:
Exactly. It would be nice to see one of our European allies committing to this, if not leading the effort. We all know thr US would do the heavy lifting if there were actually a conflict, but I would like to see someone else in the boat with us.
How have they not? All those european countries can do is make political statements and work through diplomacy. Sending all 12 of their tanks to their borders isn't going to make a statement. Neither will sending all 200 of their troops.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 10:56 am to brodeo
quote:
True for the most part, but they also possess a metric shite ton of tanks.
Yeah, and we possess the world's largest air force (by the measure of thousands) with the most aircraft carriers.
Our Army has a larger Air Force than Russia does.
Literally, the United States Army has more aircraft available than the entire Russian military.
More soldiers.
More technology.
More resources.
More money.
Literally in every category, we trounce Russia and that's not even counting the rest of our alliance.
China would never back Russia in this (and have called for an end to the hostilities, because their economy is actually pretty decent) and -- forget it man.
If you think Russia is a serious threat, enjoy being a reactionary media mouth-breathing simpleton.
Posted on 6/24/15 at 11:02 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
If you think Russia is a serious threat, enjoy being a reactionary media mouth-breathing simpleton.
But Russia used to be a power and they have a macho acting leader. Obviously they are a great military threat to the world.
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