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re: UPDATED. A European Astronomical Observatory is Announcing an “Unprecedented Discovery”

Posted on 10/12/17 at 11:56 am to
Posted by Perfect Circle
S W Alabama
Member since Sep 2017
6849 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 11:56 am to
Actually, scientists think dust is what is causing Tabby's star's fluctuations in brightness.
Concerning the Dyson Sphere, the amount of raw material needed to construct one would consume the natural resources of many solar systems. A highly advanced technology would be necessary to build one.
Posted by wareaglepete
Lumon Industries
Member since Dec 2012
11002 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 1:05 pm to
The thought of discovering a Dyson Sphere is actually pretty scary. That is technological capabilities way beyond what we could ever understand. Difference between man and ant. Better hope they are nice.
Posted by Perfect Circle
S W Alabama
Member since Sep 2017
6849 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 1:20 pm to
If they're that advanced they probably already know we're here.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

Actually, scientists think dust is what is causing Tabby's star's fluctuations in brightness.


That was a reasonable supposition at first but after studying the idea it was dismissed because of a lack of infrared radiation. When dust is circling a star, it's heated and then gives off radiation in the infrared part of the light spectrum.

NASA's Spitzger Space Telescope, dedicated to analyzing infrared transmissions, was used to see if, indeed, dust was present in large amounts around the star. It didn't find any.

quote:

Concerning the Dyson Sphere, the amount of raw material needed to construct one would consume the natural resources of many solar systems.


Since we have no idea how to build a Dyson's Sphere, it would seem premature to estimate the resources needed to construct one.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

The thought of discovering a Dyson Sphere is actually pretty scary. That is technological capabilities way beyond what we could ever understand. Difference between man and ant. Better hope they are nice.


The unknown scares humans. Even people like Stephen Hawking and Elon Musk seem to get the trembles when it comes to alien contact.

Fortunately, our curiosity is stronger than our fear and we cautiously explore the unknown. We'll be fine.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 2:23 pm to
quote:

If they're that advanced they probably already know we're here.


Other civilizations might know that earth has life because of the strong presence, 21%, of oxygen in our atmosphere. However, atmospheric markers of a technological civilization on earth have been present for only about 150 years. That means that intelligent species more than 150 light years away wouldn't yet know that a smart species had evolved here.

Tabby's Star is an estimated 1,280 light years from earth. Through their telescopes they would see an earth with an approximate date of 737 CE (or A.D. depending on how old you are). There were about 500 million people on earth then and they were almost exclusively agricultural so they weren't pumping chemicals into the air. They won't know for another 1,000+ years that we have become a technological civilization.
Posted by Perfect Circle
S W Alabama
Member since Sep 2017
6849 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 2:38 pm to
Even though we have no idea how to build a Dyson Sphere, it's safe to assume that, since it would encircle a star, it's mass would be greater than the star system's combined planetary mass.
Posted by Perfect Circle
S W Alabama
Member since Sep 2017
6849 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 3:06 pm to
quote:

University of Arizona astronomer Huan Meng and co-authors have found the long-term dimming of KIC 8462852-a main-sequence F-type star located in the constellation Cygnus, about 1,480 light-years from Earth- appears to be weaker at longer infrared (IR) wavelengths of light and stronger in a shorter ultraviolet (UV) wavelengths. Such reddening is characteristic of dust particles and inconsistent with more fanciful 'alien megastructure' concepts, which would evenly dim all wavelengths of light. The study is published in the Astrophysical Journal (arXiv.org preprint)


Appears in Sci News, dated Oct. 9, 2017
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 3:42 pm to
quote:

it's safe to assume


I don't think it's ever safe to assume. When we do we make mistakes. All we know about a Dyson's Sphere is that it's meant to harness 100% of a star's output of energy. Kardashev didn't give us anything else to go on.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 3:54 pm to
quote:

Appears in Sci News, dated Oct. 9, 2017


I hope you don't regard this study as conclusive. Even the theorists don't. All they did was show that any dust orbiting Tabby's Star is big enough to avoid being pushed out of that solar system by radiation from the star.

quote:

they did not address the shorter-term dimming events that happened in three-day spurts in 2017 and two brightening episodes in 2007 and 2014.
Posted by Perfect Circle
S W Alabama
Member since Sep 2017
6849 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 4:44 pm to
The simplest answer is usually correct - Occam's Razor, and all that rot.
I guess until we can actually resolve Tabby's star, we'll never really know.
Posted by sunseeker
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2016
2651 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 5:22 pm to
I would say another planetary system like Trappist or whatever but you said "unprecedented" so that rules it out. Probably a breakthrough about dark matter but also may not meet our expectations given the suspense.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 5:48 pm to
quote:

The simplest answer is usually correct


I agree. For me that's the idea that a very large planet was absorbed by the star. That would explain the long-term dimming over the past century. Dr. Bradley Schaefer of LSU analyzed 100 years of observation data by Harvard and discovered that the star had dimmed by 20% from 1890-1989.

Even our own sun is thought to have possibly absorbed one of its planets early in the formative stages of the solar system. The amount of lithium in the sun's outer layer seems to be too high and could have been added by eating a planet rich in the element.
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 5:58 pm to
quote:

I would say another planetary system like Trappist or whatever but you said "unprecedented" so that rules it out.


Not necessarily. Trappist 1 and its 7 earth size planets are 39 light years away. Maybe the European agency has found a way to analyze the atmosphere of one or more of the planets. That would be worthy of the drama surrounding the announcement.

It would, of course, be the most important discovery in history if they discovered oxygen in one of the atmospheres. That would mean extraterrestrial life had been located. That would be dramatic indeed.
Posted by Perfect Circle
S W Alabama
Member since Sep 2017
6849 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 6:41 pm to
Oxygen is a bio-marker for life on other planets, however the presence of oxygen doesn't necessarily mean that life is present. Chemical processes can also create oxygen without life being present.
If oxygen were detected on another world, we couldn't know for certain life was present, unless we went there or sent a research vessel.
Posted by Perfect Circle
S W Alabama
Member since Sep 2017
6849 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 6:56 pm to
You're probably right. Dark energy and dark matter top the list of greatest mysteries in physics.
Posted by MaroonNation
StarkVegas, Mississippi, Bitch!
Member since Nov 2010
21950 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 7:04 pm to
quote:

The last time that astronomers unveiled a groundbreaking discovery of this nature was when scientists working at LIGO (the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory) detected gravitational waves. Ultimately, the find ushered us into a new era in astronomy, allowing us to see the universe as never before.


It was also proven that the researchers jumped the gun a bit on the discovery of gravitational waves (signs of the first light emitted by the Big Bang that would prove quantum mechanics and galactic inflation). It was shown that the instruments actually were viewing dust in space. The B-Mode still actually eludes researchers.
Posted by MaroonNation
StarkVegas, Mississippi, Bitch!
Member since Nov 2010
21950 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 7:10 pm to
quote:

Oxygen is a bio-marker for life on other planets,


You misspelled methane. Oxygen can form from water breakdown so it isn’t conclusive for life. Everything that breaths and eats farts and everything that farts produces methane.
This post was edited on 10/12/17 at 7:13 pm
Posted by Kentucker
Cincinnati, KY
Member since Apr 2013
19351 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 7:46 pm to
quote:

Oxygen is a bio-marker for life on other planets, however the presence of oxygen doesn't necessarily mean that life is present. Chemical processes can also create oxygen without life being present. If oxygen were detected on another world, we couldn't know for certain life was present, unless we went there or sent a research vessel.


Oxygen alone isn't a biomarker for life. There are accompanying compounds such as carbon dioxide and methane that would indicate the oxygen was being generated by life processes.

Also, the chemical processes that can cause oxygen to be released are short period whereas life-generated oxygen would be steady or periodical, as in seasonally variable.
Posted by Perfect Circle
S W Alabama
Member since Sep 2017
6849 posts
Posted on 10/12/17 at 7:49 pm to
Right, oxygen doesn't necessarily equal presence of life; thought that's what I said.
The presence of methane doesn't necessarily mean that life is present, either; check Uranus, Neptune and Titan.
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