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re: This is as frickin' wackadoodle as it gets right here .... (Elliott Rogers)
Posted on 5/24/14 at 10:41 pm to KSGamecock
Posted on 5/24/14 at 10:41 pm to KSGamecock
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Posted on 5/24/14 at 10:46 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
On a more serious note here's the kid's manifesto. He's seriously fricked in the head. Talks about killing his little kid brother so he can't "surpass him" and how he'd kill his roommates and lure "beautiful" people in to his apartment to torture and kill them. Considering that the cops just found three bodies in his apartment he might have done it.
LINK
LINK
This post was edited on 5/24/14 at 10:48 pm
Posted on 5/24/14 at 10:50 pm to KSGamecock
Yeah I read it earlier and is a very interesting and sad read. He was doomed to carry out this tragedy or at the very least his own suicide without professional help. He was so angry that he was taking people with him. He carried it out almost exactly the way he described he would. Killed three in his apartment, two sorority sisters, and two random on the street.
This post was edited on 5/24/14 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 5/24/14 at 10:53 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
I tried reading it but it was too dark, depressing and twisted. I'd feel bad for the guy if he hadn't hurt other people. Is his level of narcissism considered a disorder? Because damn.
Posted on 5/24/14 at 11:08 pm to KSGamecock
My layman opinion and it only touches on bits and pieces of his issues is this.
He had aspergers which is a form of autism. My limited understanding of it is that they struggle with social interactions. They have great difficulty in seeing humor in someone's comments that were meant to be humorous.
If you read its entirety he had extremely high expectations of how things would turn out, and his expectations were unrealistic and doomed from the get go. They were unrealistic because he failed to see his role in the relationships. He was shy, and awkward in speaking to others.
He came across as cold, arrogant, narcissistic, and most likely was offensive or forward in the things he said when he did engage in conversation.
He forgot nothing even from a young age and carried each failure with him. That stems from when he was a little boy of 4. Not too mention the way he was raised along the way, the divorce of his parents, nannies, step mom he fought with, etc.
He never took responsibility for things that went wrong, and blamed everyone else for bringing him pain. There is so much more, but I would be writing a long time...
In short yes I think arnsperger can be partly responsible for his narcissism without really knowing anything about his father or mother.
He had aspergers which is a form of autism. My limited understanding of it is that they struggle with social interactions. They have great difficulty in seeing humor in someone's comments that were meant to be humorous.
If you read its entirety he had extremely high expectations of how things would turn out, and his expectations were unrealistic and doomed from the get go. They were unrealistic because he failed to see his role in the relationships. He was shy, and awkward in speaking to others.
He came across as cold, arrogant, narcissistic, and most likely was offensive or forward in the things he said when he did engage in conversation.
He forgot nothing even from a young age and carried each failure with him. That stems from when he was a little boy of 4. Not too mention the way he was raised along the way, the divorce of his parents, nannies, step mom he fought with, etc.
He never took responsibility for things that went wrong, and blamed everyone else for bringing him pain. There is so much more, but I would be writing a long time...
In short yes I think arnsperger can be partly responsible for his narcissism without really knowing anything about his father or mother.
Posted on 5/24/14 at 11:12 pm to KSGamecock
I think his pathology goes beyond narcissism. He wasn't connected to reality in any way. Like so many of the recent shooters before him, he blamed his troubles on society in general; a society from which he felt disconnected and denied.
I don't know what the solution is but a national discussion is in order. Do we bring back mental institutions? Would he have qualified as a resident based on his history? How do we pick out borderline personality people like him and give them treatment? It's a puzzle right now.
I don't know what the solution is but a national discussion is in order. Do we bring back mental institutions? Would he have qualified as a resident based on his history? How do we pick out borderline personality people like him and give them treatment? It's a puzzle right now.
Posted on 5/24/14 at 11:14 pm to RockyMtnTigerWDE
That makes sense.
Really hit the nail on the head with this:
Really hit the nail on the head with this:
quote:
He never took responsibility for things that went wrong, and blamed everyone else for bringing him pain
This post was edited on 5/24/14 at 11:15 pm
Posted on 5/24/14 at 11:16 pm to Kentucker
quote:
I don't know what the solution is but a national discussion is in order. Do we bring back mental institutions? Would he have qualified as a resident based on his history? How do we pick out borderline personality people like him and give them treatment?
It is a difficult task indeed to figure out the steps needed. People can blame guns all they want, but he killed three by knife in his apartment. You are on the right track in that we need to address the mental illness issue, and how we help them. Instead of fighting the second amendment the discussion should be what you suggested.
Posted on 5/24/14 at 11:17 pm to Kentucker
quote:
I don't know what the solution is but a national discussion is in order. Do we bring back mental institutions? Would he have qualified as a resident based on his history? How do we pick out borderline personality people like him and give them treatment? It's a puzzle right now.
Good questions.
I've read that his parents called the cops last week after seeing his videos, the cops interviewed him but let it die after that. It's a weird thing to ponder. We complain that people should have noticed it and tried to stop it but how? What can the cops do? Lock up anyone who seems a little off on Social Media? If they did we'd all be in jail and if they don't then we occasionally have this kind of thing happen. I have no idea what the answer is.
Posted on 5/25/14 at 12:08 am to scrooster
quote:
Free Republic had it first.
There's some Freepers who are damn near psychic. And I say that as a person who has a solid A- in internet investigation.
Posted on 5/25/14 at 12:10 am to Kentucker
quote:
Would he have qualified as a resident based on his history?
I'd be surprised if he qualified for an inpatient unit.
Posted on 5/25/14 at 9:29 am to Kentucker
quote:
Do we bring back mental institutions?
I'd venture to say that most posters here are too young to recall the widespread abuse and, at times, abject horror associated with the poor standards of care and treatment in these facilities. It's not like we just didn't want to fund them anymore. They didn't work, and many healthcare professionals felt there were better ways than grouping the worst together in a facility.
If you need an example, watch this short clip on Willowbrook.
LINK
"But Flesh! That was in the 60's and 70's. That kinda of institutional abuse and neglect wouldn't happen today."
This post was edited on 5/25/14 at 9:30 am
Posted on 5/25/14 at 9:40 am to FleshEatingSalsa
Read the manifesto. It's like reading American Psycho minus the gratuitous gore and violence. The way he described his childhood seemed to be more his nostalgizing his past as wonderful and joyful in order to contrast the present s evil and corrupt. If we can believe the events that he claims to have taken place, though, it seems like he had a pretty great home life and a caring family. This individual has an incomparable inferiority complex. Compare him to the following list. He is a textbook psychopath:
quote:
Hervey Cleckley’s List of Psychopathy Symptoms:
1. Considerable superficial charm and average or above average intelligence.
2. Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.
3. Absence of anxiety or other “neurotic” symptoms. Considerable poise, calmness and verbal facility.
4. Unreliability, disregard for obligations, no sense of responsibility, in matters of little and great import.
5. Untruthfulness and insincerity.
6. Antisocial behavior which is inadequately motivated and poorly planned, seeming to stem from an inexplicable impulsiveness.
7. Inadequately motivated antisocial behavior.
8. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience.
9. Pathological egocentricity. Total self-centeredness and an incapacity for real love and attachment.
10. General poverty of deep and lasting emotions.
11. Lack of any true insight; inability to see oneself as others do.
12. Ingratitude for any special considerations, kindness and trust.
13. Fantastic and objectionable behavior, after drinking and sometimes even when not drinking. Vulgarity, rudeness, quick mood shifts, pranks for facile entertainment.
14. No history of genuine suicide attempts.
15. An impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated sex life.
16. Failure to have a life plan and to live in any ordered way (unless it is for destructive purposes or a sham).
Posted on 5/25/14 at 10:05 am to scrooster
What is surprising to me about this: The guy wasn't bad looking, he was obviously from a well off family, nice car, nice clothes etc...
Normally some gold digging girl, would hook up with him and frick his brains out and manipulate him for her purposes, long before he was out of high school.
That this didn't happen, tells me that he was one creepy son of a bitch.
Who were the people that he killed at his apartment?
Were they roommates or what?
Normally some gold digging girl, would hook up with him and frick his brains out and manipulate him for her purposes, long before he was out of high school.
That this didn't happen, tells me that he was one creepy son of a bitch.
Who were the people that he killed at his apartment?
Were they roommates or what?
This post was edited on 5/25/14 at 10:12 am
Posted on 5/25/14 at 12:14 pm to betweenthebara
quote:
I guess he didn't realize he wanted the D instead of the V.
This. I think it is painfully obvious.
Posted on 5/25/14 at 7:23 pm to the808bass
quote:
There's some Freepers who are damn near psychic. And I say that as a person who has a solid A- in internet investigation.
They had two people who were posting about it as it was happening, one of them knew the guy and the family and was giving information a solid hour before the news had any details.
Posted on 5/25/14 at 7:26 pm to FleshEatingSalsa
quote:
They didn't work, and many healthcare professionals felt there were better ways than grouping the worst together in a facility.
Apparently, our "better way" has been turning many of them out onto the streets and pretending the problem doesn't exist.
Posted on 5/25/14 at 8:50 pm to GoBigOrange86
quote:
Apparently, our "better way" has been turning many of them out onto the streets and pretending the problem doesn't exist.
This ^.
40 years ago the mother of the 20-year-old who killed all those kids in Connecticut could have had his arse committed to a state mental institution. We are turning a very blind eye to people like Elliot Rodger and the strong signals that they are dangers to society.
The prevention of tragedies is given short schrift because nothing happens. If we dedicated a fraction of our resources to the prevention and treatment of mental illness, we could cut way down on the number of incidents like this one.
Instead, people wail and cry about the evils of guns after a tragedy happens. Like guns are the sole cause of killings. This madman used a knife to kill half of his victims. It isn't the weapon that kills people, it's the psycho wielding it that does.
This post was edited on 5/25/14 at 8:52 pm
Posted on 5/25/14 at 10:08 pm to FleshEatingSalsa
quote:
They didn't work, and many healthcare professionals felt there were better ways than grouping the worst together in a facility.
Having lived through both an age of institutions and the modern age the issue is the same as any form of health care. If you have proper financial support we should have institutions that offer long term on site care with locked facilities. When folks are loose on the streets that should be in locked facilities we have real problems.
The biggest part of the question is at what level are you locked up and what level are you able to have outpatient or home health care. We already address these issues on the physical health care so why can we not do the same on the mental side. Abuse can happen anywhere and with most any type of locked facility be it prisons, hospitals, or mental health facilities. A big part is screening your ownership and staff.
If you have a prison and fill most jobs at entry level minimum wage positions to increase your profit, it should be easy to see you will have potential for the most abuse.
The problem with Reagan cutting health care to fund Star Wars was that it dumped folks on the streets to fend for themselves and most wound up costing more entering the system through homeless shelters and jails. Spend some time with old cops who have seen both systems at work over the past 50 years.
Posted on 5/25/14 at 10:23 pm to Kentucker
quote:
40 years ago the mother of the 20-year-old who killed all those kids in Connecticut could have had his arse committed to a state mental institution.
It wasn't this easy. But let's pretend it was.
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