Started By
Message
re: The real Rebel yell by real Rebels
Posted on 8/13/16 at 8:24 am to No Colors
Posted on 8/13/16 at 8:24 am to No Colors
quote:That's a good job if you can get it.
That's 20,000 draft eligible young privileged white males sipping champagne and banging their girlfriends on a beautiful day in Massachusetts.
Posted on 8/13/16 at 11:44 am to pvilleguru
Sheer numbers is the reason Grant managed to pull it off. Lee was clearly the superior military mind.
Posted on 8/13/16 at 1:16 pm to No Colors
quote:
Save praise for Sherman. If you want, heap it on 300,000 illiterate Irishmen who stepped straight off a boat, and into a blue uniform. They were the difference.
DGAF how it happened, just damn glad the South took that L.
Posted on 8/13/16 at 4:37 pm to UKWildcats
quote:
Sheer numbers is the reason Grant managed to pull it off. Lee was clearly the superior military mind.
That and the North had way more resources be it beans, bullets or bluebellies.
Posted on 8/13/16 at 4:42 pm to UKWildcats
False. Grant was a master of maneuver and logistics.
Posted on 8/13/16 at 11:52 pm to SoFla Tideroller
Grant was a severe alcoholic.
Posted on 8/14/16 at 2:33 am to Ridgewalker
There's a lot of butthurt southerners in this thread
Yankee pride!
Yankee pride!
Posted on 8/14/16 at 7:20 am to KCM0Tiger
Posted on 8/14/16 at 10:57 am to Ridgewalker
quote:
you can find more battle flags flying in Missouri than in any other state with a star on that battle flag.
Quite an unfortunate distinction.
Posted on 8/14/16 at 2:41 pm to TbirdSpur2010
So, you're one of those that thinks the war was over slavery? I think ultimately it was about states rights and maintaining the Union.
Here is why I think this way.
From Abe's letter to Horace Greeley.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.
Here is why I think this way.
From Abe's letter to Horace Greeley.
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.
This post was edited on 8/14/16 at 2:45 pm
Posted on 8/14/16 at 3:01 pm to Ridgewalker
quote:Yeah, it was about states rights to own slaves.
I think ultimately it was about states rights
Posted on 8/14/16 at 4:34 pm to Ridgewalker
quote:
you're one of those that thinks the war was over slavery?
You're one of those who thinks it wasn't?
Also, quite telling that this was your response to me saying that so much adulation for a losing/treasonous cause in MO.
quote:
I think ultimately it was about states rights and maintaining the Union.
State's rights....to own other human beings as commercial assets and as the backbone for said commerce. Anytime someone says "state's rights" and leaves it right there, that's purposefully revisionist history they're using.
Posted on 8/14/16 at 4:54 pm to TbirdSpur2010
It was states rights from a Southern perspective. And yes one of those rights was slavery. Which still exists by the way. There is no revision needed.
From a Northern perspective it was about maintaining the union. Abe's comments make that clear. So one could argue that it wasn't about slavery.
From a Northern perspective it was about maintaining the union. Abe's comments make that clear. So one could argue that it wasn't about slavery.
Posted on 8/14/16 at 5:00 pm to Ridgewalker
Also, I don't hail Lincoln as some great emancipator. He did what he thought he had to do to keep the nation intact--because the South decided that his election was the harbinger of doom for their way of life. Ironically, the South freaking out over Lincoln's presidency almost certainly hastened the end of the institution they held so dear.
And make no mistake, slavery was the very crux of the matter, as said by the states themselves:
South Carolina:
Louisiana:
Alabama:
Texas:
And make no mistake, slavery was the very crux of the matter, as said by the states themselves:
South Carolina:
quote:
Mississippi:
[quote]Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin…
Louisiana:
quote:
As a separate republic, Louisiana remembers too well the whisperings of European diplomacy for the abolition of slavery in the times of annexation not to be apprehensive of bolder demonstrations from the same quarter and the North in this country. The people of the slave holding States are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery.
Alabama:
quote:
the triumph of this new [Lincoln-advanced] theory of Government destroys the property of the South, lays waste her fields, and inaugurates all the horrors of a San Domingo servile insurrection, consigning her citizens to assassinations, and. her wives and daughters to pollution and violation, to gratify the lust of half-civilized Africans
Texas:
quote:
What This Cruel War Was Over
The meaning of the Confederate flag is best discerned in the words of those who bore it.
The Confederate Monument at Arlington National CemeteryWikimedia
259k
TEXT SIZE
TA-NEHISI COATES
JUN 22, 2015 POLITICS
This afternoon, in announcing her support for removing the Confederate flag from the capitol grounds, South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley asserted that killer Dylann Roof had “a sick and twisted view of the flag” which did not reflect “the people in our state who respect and in many ways revere it.” If the governor meant that very few of the flag’s supporters believe in mass murder, she is surely right. But on the question of whose view of the Confederate flag is more twisted, she is almost certainly wrong.
Roof’s belief that black life had no purpose beyond subjugation is “sick and twisted” in the exact same manner as the beliefs of those who created the Confederate flag were “sick and twisted.” The Confederate flag is directly tied to the Confederate cause, and the Confederate cause was white supremacy. This claim is not the result of revisionism. It does not require reading between the lines. It is the plain meaning of the words of those who bore the Confederate flag across history. These words must never be forgotten. Over the next few months the word “heritage” will be repeatedly invoked. It would be derelict to not examine the exact contents of that heritage.
This examination should begin in South Carolina, the site of our present and past catastrophe. South Carolina was the first state to secede, two months after the election of Abraham Lincoln. It was in South Carolina that the Civil War began, when the Confederacy fired on Fort Sumter. The state’s casus belli was neither vague nor hard to comprehend:
...A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction. This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.
In citing slavery, South Carolina was less an outlier than a leader, setting the tone for other states, including Mississippi:
Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin…
Louisiana:
As a separate republic, Louisiana remembers too well the whisperings of European diplomacy for the abolition of slavery in the times of annexation not to be apprehensive of bolder demonstrations from the same quarter and the North in this country. The people of the slave holding States are bound together by the same necessity and determination to preserve African slavery.
Alabama:
Upon the principles then announced by Mr. Lincoln and his leading friends, we are bound to expect his administration to be conducted. Hence it is, that in high places, among the Republican party, the election of Mr. Lincoln is hailed, not simply as it change of Administration, but as the inauguration of new principles, and a new theory of Government, and even as the downfall of slavery. Therefore it is that the election of Mr. Lincoln cannot be regarded otherwise than a solemn declaration, on the part of a great majority of the Northern people, of hostility to the South, her property and her institutions—nothing less than an open declaration of war—for the triumph of this new theory of Government destroys the property of the South, lays waste her fields, and inaugurates all the horrors of a San Domingo servile insurrection, consigning her citizens to assassinations, and. her wives and daughters to pollution and violation, to gratify the lust of half-civilized Africans.
Texas:
...in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states
Posted on 8/14/16 at 5:08 pm to TbirdSpur2010
Each of those instances is from a Southern perspective. I think we are in agreement here.
I agree slavery was a really bad idea but I also think men like Quantrill would have never been heard of if not for Jayhawkers raiding and killing in Missouri.
He is a product of his time and not necessarily an evil being. I am also pretty sure he never owned a single slave.
It doesn't hurt that he killed a bunch of those no good jayhawkers so yes I do admire him a little. Getting revenge for those robbed, raped, murdered and preventing the same from happening again makes him a good guy in my book. If I had lived back then I would have likely done the same as he.
I agree slavery was a really bad idea but I also think men like Quantrill would have never been heard of if not for Jayhawkers raiding and killing in Missouri.
He is a product of his time and not necessarily an evil being. I am also pretty sure he never owned a single slave.
It doesn't hurt that he killed a bunch of those no good jayhawkers so yes I do admire him a little. Getting revenge for those robbed, raped, murdered and preventing the same from happening again makes him a good guy in my book. If I had lived back then I would have likely done the same as he.
Posted on 8/14/16 at 5:08 pm to Ridgewalker
quote:
It was states rights from a Southern perspective.
Yeah....no. see my post before this one.
quote:
yes one of those rights was slavery.
By "one of," you actually mean, "the main one."
quote:
Which still exists by the way.
Chattel race-based slavery still exists in America, with states being able to buttress their entire economy upon it?
No.
Don't be one of those obtuse mofos and act like because slavery still exists in numerous forms, the CW couldn't possibly have been fought to eradicate such.
The prevailing system in the US at the time was at issue.
Posted on 8/14/16 at 5:09 pm to pvilleguru
You have really appreciate the technology that allows us to see these guys long dead perform something we would only read about now.
Imagine if we could hear whatever William Wallace yelled when fighting the English. Etc.
Imagine if we could hear whatever William Wallace yelled when fighting the English. Etc.
Posted on 8/14/16 at 5:15 pm to Ridgewalker
quote:
Each of those instances is from a Southern perspective. I think we are in agreement here.
If you agree that slavery was the prevailing issue over which the conflict arose, then, yes, we are
quote:
He is a product of his time and not necessarily an evil being.
Careful, now, this is the same strain of apologist rhetoric that some folks use to justify Nazi exploits.
I endeavor not to turn historical figures into caricatures. Not saying that everyone who fought for the Confederacy was some leering villain with devil horns.
I am saying that the cause they fought for was inherently treasonous, and their reasons for so fighting were directly tied to the continued subjugation of african slaves and perpetuation of the chattel slavery system upon which their economy was based.
Posted on 8/14/16 at 5:19 pm to TbirdSpur2010
When I say slavery stills exists I mean chattel race based slavery still exists on this planet.I wasn't limiting my comment to the U.S.
Popular
Back to top
Follow SECRant for SEC Football News