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Posted on 5/19/14 at 9:06 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
There is no doubt that Christians are violent today, and have been throughout history (same for nearly all religions), but would you agree that presently radical Islam presents more global violence than any other radical manifestation of religion? I'm not directing this at any poster in particular, just in general.
I'll certainly concede that there have been different centuries where Christianity was likely the #1 perpetrator. I don't feel that is the case today. Obviously factors outside of religion play into this like global politics and economies, so I'm not purely blaming Islam here.
I just think it is a classic false equivalency to say "look at this terrible thing done in the name of Christianity/Judaism/etc., therefore you shouldn't say Islam is responsible for more violence"
I'll certainly concede that there have been different centuries where Christianity was likely the #1 perpetrator. I don't feel that is the case today. Obviously factors outside of religion play into this like global politics and economies, so I'm not purely blaming Islam here.
I just think it is a classic false equivalency to say "look at this terrible thing done in the name of Christianity/Judaism/etc., therefore you shouldn't say Islam is responsible for more violence"
Posted on 5/19/14 at 9:12 pm to Dawg in Beaumont
quote:
There is no doubt that Christians are violent today, and have been throughout history (same for nearly all religions), but would you agree that presently radical Islam presents more global violence than any other radical manifestation of religion? I'm not directing this at any poster in particular, just in general.
This is pretty spot on -- I'm not an anti-Islamic person but you can't deny the empirical evidence that they seem to bring violence on themselves or on the domestic population wherever they go.
They can't get along with Jews, they can't get along with Christians, they can't get along with secularists, they can't even get along with Buddhists or other factions of Islam.
quote:
I just think it is a classic false equivalency to say "look at this terrible thing done in the name of Christianity/Judaism/etc., therefore you shouldn't say Islam is responsible for more violence"
I also agree with this -- the biggest difference is that everything about Islam is contemporary. It started out bad, of course, but it's gotten worse and worse.
Islam is due for a renaissance.
Posted on 5/19/14 at 9:16 pm to Dawg in Beaumont
Look, what I have been trying to say is that blaming the religion is pointless and doesn't even help get us to the end goal which should be ultimate peace. The religion is used as the rallying cry for these radical leaders who in the end only want power. In the past, Christianity was used in the same way, even by church powers. However as you all state, now it is not seen in nearly so negative a light and doesn't do the same kinds of things it used to.
Instead of blaming the religion, maybe we should support the leaders who are saying that this is not what Islam is. There are specific verses which I quoted earlier. Why not support the people who are leaning on those and instead of focusing on the religion, we focus on the radical leaders and perhaps effect real change. Otherwise we just fulfill the prophecy which would make the words the other side is speaking all the more powerful by actually targeting and oppressing muslims, even in as small a way as to treat them differently than their christian counterparts.
Again before anyone gets upset yes we should go after the extremists who do and support violence.
Instead of blaming the religion, maybe we should support the leaders who are saying that this is not what Islam is. There are specific verses which I quoted earlier. Why not support the people who are leaning on those and instead of focusing on the religion, we focus on the radical leaders and perhaps effect real change. Otherwise we just fulfill the prophecy which would make the words the other side is speaking all the more powerful by actually targeting and oppressing muslims, even in as small a way as to treat them differently than their christian counterparts.
Again before anyone gets upset yes we should go after the extremists who do and support violence.
Posted on 5/19/14 at 9:23 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
It's not mutually exclusive (being critical of the bad guys and supporting the good leaders as you rightly say), I'm on board with your plan. I just grow extremely frustrated with certain commentators (and I'm thinking nationally here, certainly not you or an OT board poster) who are horrified of saying anything critical of Islam for fear of being labeled racist/zionist/etc.
I'd argue that a big first step in properly supporting those leaders who are standing up within Islam and saying the appropriate things is acknowledging that there is a problem. Now there are certainly closed minded people who just want to stop after the blame part and paint with broad brush strokes "they're all terrorists", stuff like that. But to me it is just as ignorant to take the head in the sand approach that Bill Maher keeps riling up his fellow liberals about doing.
Honestly my whole rant really wasn't directed at anyone here and may not be all that pertinent. It's just been on my mind and watching that clip I linked earlier reminded me. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.
I'd argue that a big first step in properly supporting those leaders who are standing up within Islam and saying the appropriate things is acknowledging that there is a problem. Now there are certainly closed minded people who just want to stop after the blame part and paint with broad brush strokes "they're all terrorists", stuff like that. But to me it is just as ignorant to take the head in the sand approach that Bill Maher keeps riling up his fellow liberals about doing.
Honestly my whole rant really wasn't directed at anyone here and may not be all that pertinent. It's just been on my mind and watching that clip I linked earlier reminded me. Thanks for the opportunity to vent.
Posted on 5/19/14 at 9:29 pm to Dawg in Beaumont
I enjoy the discussion and I am not actually religious. My rant was really just an to attempt to give an explanation of what I was trying to say throughout the thread.
This post was edited on 5/19/14 at 9:30 pm
Posted on 5/19/14 at 9:30 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
quote:
Instead of blaming the religion, maybe we should support the leaders who are saying that this is not what Islam is.
Sam Harris touches on this really well and is regularly called an "Islamophobe". The fact of the matter is: It's the -amount- of people who would fall into the extremist view.
What do you really think when you hear: Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia?
Do you think: "Man, what great places to live."?
What do you think it's like to be a woman in those countries?
What do you think they'd do to you if they found out you were a Christian or an Atheist? I say this, and one of my best friends growing up was Islamic -- I worked with white card holders in the Army as a combat simulation specialist, I enjoy Muslim culture.
But there is no way to cut it -- something has got to be done with how they worship.
Posted on 5/19/14 at 9:49 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
I still haven't received anything in regards to Christians cannibalizing Muslims in Africa.
Posted on 5/19/14 at 9:50 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
its the other white meat
Posted on 5/19/14 at 11:50 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
^^^^^ I couldn't help but laugh!
Posted on 5/20/14 at 11:36 am to Gatorgal04
She's gonna be allowed to give birth before they execute her. Hope the judge rots in he'll.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 11:51 am to TT9
quote:
She's gonna be allowed to give birth before they execute her. Hope the judge rots in he'll.
Why, so they can execute her baby shortly thereafter?
Posted on 5/20/14 at 2:18 pm to Vols&Shaft83
No idea.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 2:59 pm to TT9
quote:
No idea.
My money's on yes.
Muslims gonna Muslim
Posted on 5/20/14 at 3:03 pm to Vols&Shaft83
they'll probably eat the baby
Posted on 5/20/14 at 3:24 pm to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Needless to say: Any religion that says 'believe in me or spend eternity in hellfire' cannot claim to be a religion of peace.
Many Christian denominations claim the same.
Or is it okay because they don't "claim" to be a religion of peace?
Posted on 5/20/14 at 3:40 pm to BamaChick
quote:
Or is it okay because they don't "claim" to be a religion of peace?
Nobody cares about what people of a religion claims.
People care about what the media says. And right now the media says that Islam is a religion of peace and Christianity is a religion of bigotry.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 3:42 pm to PrivatePublic
the media totes doesn't say that.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 3:45 pm to CheeseburgerEddie
Watch something other than fox brah.
Posted on 5/20/14 at 3:47 pm to PrivatePublic
I don't watch fox, I don't really watch anything, just read web articles. So maybe the talking heads say that. I'll rephrase to the media totes doesn't write that.
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