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re: Should citizens on the terrorist watch list be able to legally buy guns?
Posted on 11/20/15 at 10:12 am to Patton
Posted on 11/20/15 at 10:12 am to Patton
quote:
I don't know. Leaning towards no. Although the thought of the government just being able to put you on a list and automatically taking away your constitutional rights is pretty terrifying.
I mean, what could go wrong?
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Posted on 11/20/15 at 3:04 pm to Patton
quote:
Should citizens on the terrorist watch list be able to legally buy guns?
If you answer no to this question then you don't deserve any sort of freedom.
There's not even the slightest suggestion of due process in that list.
Posted on 11/20/15 at 10:36 pm to sullivanct19a
quote:
If you answer no to this question then you don't deserve any sort of freedom.
There's not even the slightest suggestion of due process in that list.
This is what the morons who answered no support.
72 Types Of Americans That Are Considered “Potential Terrorists” In Official Government Documents
quote:
Below is a list of 72 types of Americans that are considered to be “extremists” and “potential terrorists” in official U.S. government documents. To see the original source document for each point, just click on the link. As you can see, this list covers most of the country…
1. Those that talk about “individual liberties”
2. Those that advocate for states’ rights
3. Those that want “to make the world a better place”
4. “The colonists who sought to free themselves from British rule”
5. Those that are interested in “defeating the Communists”
6. Those that believe “that the interests of one’s own nation are separate from the interests of other nations or the common interest of all nations”
7. Anyone that holds a “political ideology that considers the state to be unnecessary, harmful,or undesirable”
8. Anyone that possesses an “intolerance toward other religions”
9. Those that “take action to fight against the exploitation of the environment and/or animals”
10. “Anti-Gay”
11. “Anti-Immigrant”
12. “Anti-Muslim”
13. “The Patriot Movement”
14. “Opposition to equal rights for gays and lesbians”
15. Members of the Family Research Council
16. Members of the American Family Association
17. Those that believe that Mexico, Canada and the United States “are secretly planning to merge into a European Union-like entity that will be known as the ‘North American Union’”
18. Members of the American Border Patrol/American Patrol
19. Members of the Federation for American Immigration Reform
20. Members of the Tennessee Freedom Coalition
21. Members of the Christian Action Network
22. Anyone that is “opposed to the New World Order”
23. Anyone that is engaged in “conspiracy theorizing”
24. Anyone that is opposed to Agenda 21
25. Anyone that is concerned about FEMA camps
26. Anyone that “fears impending gun control or weapons confiscations”
27. The militia movement
28. The sovereign citizen movement
29. Those that “don’t think they should have to pay taxes”
30. Anyone that “complains about bias”
31. Anyone that “believes in government conspiracies to the point of paranoia”
32. Anyone that “is frustrated with mainstream ideologies”
33. Anyone that “visits extremist websites/blogs”
34. Anyone that “establishes website/blog to display extremist views”
35. Anyone that “attends rallies for extremist causes”
36. Anyone that “exhibits extreme religious intolerance”
37. Anyone that “is personally connected with a grievance”
38. Anyone that “suddenly acquires weapons”
39. Anyone that “organizes protests inspired by extremist ideology”
40. “Militia or unorganized militia”
41. “General right-wing extremist”
42. Citizens that have “bumper stickers” that are patriotic or anti-U.N.
43. Those that refer to an “Army of God”
44. Those that are “fiercely nationalistic (as opposed to universal and international in orientation)”
45. Those that are “anti-global”
46. Those that are “suspicious of centralized federal authority”
47. Those that are “reverent of individual liberty”
48. Those that “believe in conspiracy theories”
49. Those that have “a belief that one’s personal and/or national ‘way of life’ is under attack”
50. Those that possess “a belief in the need to be prepared for an attack either by participating in paramilitary preparations and training or survivalism”
51. Those that would “impose strict religious tenets or laws on society (fundamentalists)”
52. Those that would “insert religion into the political sphere”
53. Anyone that would “seek to politicize religion”
54. Those that have “supported political movements for autonomy”
55. Anyone that is “anti-abortion”
56. Anyone that is “anti-Catholic”
57. Anyone that is “anti-nuclear”
58. “Rightwing extremists”
59. “Returning veterans”
60. Those concerned about “illegal immigration”
61. Those that “believe in the right to bear arms”
62. Anyone that is engaged in “ammunition stockpiling”
63. Anyone that exhibits “fear of Communist regimes”
64. “Anti-abortion activists”
65. Those that are against illegal immigration
66. Those that talk about “the New World Order” in a “derogatory” manner
67. Those that have a negative view of the United Nations
68. Those that are opposed “to the collection of federal income taxes”
69. Those that supported former presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin and Bob Barr
70. Those that display the Gadsden Flag (“Don’t Tread On Me”)
71. Those that believe in “end times” prophecies
72. Evangelical Christians
Posted on 11/20/15 at 10:57 pm to SavageOrangeJug
Black panthers are on the terrorist list.
Posted on 11/20/15 at 10:58 pm to Patton
Everyone will be on some watch list before long
Posted on 11/21/15 at 12:34 am to SavageOrangeJug
I think they left 'Veterans' off the list. How dare we pledge to support and defend the Constitution of the United States!
Posted on 11/21/15 at 12:59 am to Patton
Should a person have his first amendment rights taken away because he somehow lands on some arbitrary list? No? Then neither should he have his second amendment rights or any other of his constitutionally gauranteed rights infringed upon without due process. I would not have a problem with law enforcement being notified though
Posted on 11/21/15 at 1:27 am to narddogg81
quote:
I would not have a problem with law enforcement being notified though
Arbitrary list, but it's still OK to tell police someone is on the 'bad' list? Confirmation bias is already a problem in LE, should we make it worse?
Should they tell your neighbors too? How about the teachers at your kids' school? Your employer?
Posted on 11/21/15 at 3:07 am to SavageOrangeJug
What kind of documents are they quoting from? That link is screwy on my IPad.
Without seeing the documents, that seems like a list where they're reaching to list as many things as possible.
Oh and to answer the original question yes. You can't take away someone's rights because you suspect they'll do something. That power could be abused to hell.
Without seeing the documents, that seems like a list where they're reaching to list as many things as possible.
Oh and to answer the original question yes. You can't take away someone's rights because you suspect they'll do something. That power could be abused to hell.
This post was edited on 11/21/15 at 3:09 am
Posted on 11/21/15 at 6:56 am to Weagle25
quote:
What kind of documents are they quoting from? That link is screwy on my IPad.
various memos and manuals from big gov. it links over to scribd.
Posted on 11/21/15 at 7:59 am to SavageOrangeJug
There is a lot on that list that looks like common sense to me
While I don't think an arbitrary list should keep you from your rights, I do think that buying a gun should be tougher. If you had to send off a form that takes a week or two to return with a permit to purchase one, I would have no arguments on that. I bought a 45 on a whim and it took me 10 minutes to tell them what I wanted and walked out of the store.
The reason I say to make it tougher is this: if someone buys a gun on a whim and decides that they don't really want it or need it where does it go? It ends up on Facebook being sold on the "black market" for lack of better term. Then all of a sudden you have a gun in the hands of someone that hasn't gone through screening or background check. hell, I can go on Facebook right now and buy 4 or 5 pistols and craigslist is constantly bombarded with guns or people wanting to trade for one.
if you make someone think about a purchase for a few nights, often times they change their mind.
I wouldn't have an issue making it illegal to privately sell a gun. Force people to go to dealers to help insure background checks are done but then people would bitch about someone going to jail or getting fined for illegally selling a gun.
While I don't think an arbitrary list should keep you from your rights, I do think that buying a gun should be tougher. If you had to send off a form that takes a week or two to return with a permit to purchase one, I would have no arguments on that. I bought a 45 on a whim and it took me 10 minutes to tell them what I wanted and walked out of the store.
The reason I say to make it tougher is this: if someone buys a gun on a whim and decides that they don't really want it or need it where does it go? It ends up on Facebook being sold on the "black market" for lack of better term. Then all of a sudden you have a gun in the hands of someone that hasn't gone through screening or background check. hell, I can go on Facebook right now and buy 4 or 5 pistols and craigslist is constantly bombarded with guns or people wanting to trade for one.
if you make someone think about a purchase for a few nights, often times they change their mind.
I wouldn't have an issue making it illegal to privately sell a gun. Force people to go to dealers to help insure background checks are done but then people would bitch about someone going to jail or getting fined for illegally selling a gun.
Posted on 11/21/15 at 8:16 am to Patton
Citizens on the list? As long as they would be able to buy a gun otherwise, then yes, 100%. Being on an arbitrary list does not remove your rights.
Principles are meaningless if you abandon them in the face of adversity.
Principles are meaningless if you abandon them in the face of adversity.
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