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re: Is this murder?
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:28 pm to CatFan81
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:28 pm to CatFan81
quote:
Early abortion? No. Late term when the fetus is viable? Yes.
The problem is that line is steadily moving. In the 1970s, a baby born at 25 weeks had absolutely no chance to survive. Even in the 1990s, the chance of simply surviving was about 40%. Today, the chance of surviving without any disability is 50-60%.
As medical abilities continue to advance, the 'not viabile' window's going to keep getting smaller. The entire 'not viable' argument is simply a crutch to make the concept of killing a child more palatable.
As to the question of a legitimate threat to the mother's life, as others have said that's very rare but in that case the mother has every right to choose to protect their own life.
It really is no different than the fact that I can use deadly force against someone breaking into my house but can't preemptively go down the street and kill the newly arrived thug simply to avoid the trouble he's likely to cause later on.
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Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:34 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
Thats just God's will for that girl to have a baby. [ Blessed be his name oh savior!
ummm i'm pretty sure that has never been said ever.
maybe something along the lines of:
quote:
She shouldnt have banged somebody she wasn't ready to have a baby with.
but i've never heard that trash your throwing out leave somebody's mouth.
This post was edited on 8/19/15 at 2:36 pm
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:35 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
Thats just God's will for that girl to have a baby. She shouldnt have faught God's will. Blessed be his name oh savior!
Not one single person has brought a single religious argument to this discussion.
It is SCIENCE and not religion (through increased surivial of premature births, high definition ultrasound, in utero surgeries, etc) that's demonstrating what was once thought to be mere tissue is in fact a baby capable of much more much sooner than we ever knew.
So, you really need to look for a better response but thanks for pointing out your own personal bigotry.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:37 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
I think a child deserves every chance at life. And a woman not wanting to have to drop out of college or get a second job to support themselves and the baby isn't a legit reason for them to be able to get one IMO
So... you think that a woman should be forced to have and take care of a child that she has zero desire to have? Yeah, that child would really be loved and shite.
See, that's the kind of shite that leads to millions of unwanted children in foster care and tens of thousands of children being murdered and abused year in and year out.
You can't force someone to want or to love a child. If they don't want it, they don't want it and that likely isn't going to change.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:40 pm to CatFan81
quote:
So... you think that a woman should be forced to have and take care of a child that she has zero desire to have? Yeah, that child would really be loved and shite.
Do you believe at all in personal responsibility? Outside of rape, pregnancy is a choice willingly made. If you don't want to have kids, don't get pregnant. Also, adoption is an obvious answer, not sure why that doesn't take the place of abortion.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:42 pm to CatFan81
quote:
So... you think that a woman should be forced to have and take care of a child that she has zero desire to have? Yeah, that child would really be loved and shite.
See, that's the kind of shite that leads to millions of unwanted children in foster care and tens of thousands of children being murdered and abused year in and year out.
You can't force someone to want or to love a child. If they don't want it, they don't want it and that likely isn't going to change.
it's almost like there's something they could do to not get pregnant in the first place, but i can't put my finger in it.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:42 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
Because of the very rare risk of them dying in child birth. That's literally it.
That's not, literally, it.
Birth control can, and does, fail. More often than you think. Someone taking birth control is taking as much of a precaution as one can without just not having sex. Someone being careful should not have their lives ruined by being forced to carry a child that they have no desire to have.
Rape and incest do happen, though admittedly are rare reasons, and victims of said crimes should not be forced to carry the result of them.
It's not all black and white and not everyone who has an abortion is doing it for the hell of it or as a means of birth control.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:44 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
Outside of rape, pregnancy is a choice willingly made. If you don't want to have kids, don't get pregnant.
Birth control fails, genius. shite happens.
quote:
Also, adoption is an obvious answer, not sure why that doesn't take the place of abortion.
Tell that to the millions of children in this country who will never be adopted.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:45 pm to mizzoukills
No, it's not murder. Heartbeat =/= life, certain functions of brain activity do.
Brain is the important part in dictating when a human is alive. Where people are comfortable in ending 'life' (as a general statement) is completely up for debate.
Brain is the important part in dictating when a human is alive. Where people are comfortable in ending 'life' (as a general statement) is completely up for debate.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:46 pm to CatFan81
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Birth control fails, genius. shite happens.
There are other solutions you know, genius.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:48 pm to kywildcatfanone
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There are other solutions you know, genius.
Yep. Let's force people living in poverty to take on a child that they don't want, having to depend on welfare, so that taxpayers like you can bitch about having to support the children that you want to force them to have.
Let's clog the foster care system, in which children are abused on a daily basis so that foster parents can make some extra cash, with even more unwanted children whose chances at adoption are already very slim. Especially if said child isn't a lily white baby.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:51 pm to CatFan81
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Someone being careful should not have their lives ruined by being forced to carry a child that they have no desire to have.
How does carrying a baby for 9 months and then giving it up for adoption ruin someone's life?
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Rape and incest do happen, though admittedly are rare reasons, and victims of said crimes should not be forced to carry the result of them.
As awful as that is, wouldn't it be redemptive to carry the child to birth and give it up for adoption so that the child has a chance?
quote:
It's not all black and white and not everyone who has an abortion is doing it for the hell of it or as a means of birth control.
What are the other reasons?
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:52 pm to CatFan81
quote:
Especially if said child isn't a lily white baby.
We share the same ideas regarding abortion, but I have no idea why race has to be brought into every argument.
This is completely invalidating and simply stupid to suggest.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:52 pm to CatFan81
quote:
Yep. Let's force people living in poverty to take on a child that they don't want, having to depend on welfare, so that taxpayers like you can bitch about having to support the children that you want to force them to have.
Let's clog the foster care system, in which children are abused on a daily basis so that foster parents can make some extra cash, with even more unwanted children whose chances at adoption are already very slim. Especially if said child isn't a lily white baby.
You missed my point. Birth control isn't the only answer to not getting pregnant.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:53 pm to mizzoukills
stats prove that if a woman contemplating abortion sees an ultrasound image of the baby and hears the heartbeat she will overwhelmingly choose to carry the baby to term.
Now, the left would say that the fetus isn't life and can still be aborted. But the moment a woman sees the ultrasound image and hears the heartbeat she will choose against abortion.
Why is that?
Now, the left would say that the fetus isn't life and can still be aborted. But the moment a woman sees the ultrasound image and hears the heartbeat she will choose against abortion.
Why is that?
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:55 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
You missed my point. Birth control isn't the only answer to not getting pregnant.
So you want women to not have sex? To go against human nature? That's absurd. But then, men telling women what they should and shouldn't be able to do with their own bodies is absurd not matter what the issue is.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:55 pm to mizzoukills
quote:
Why is that?
Because most women are emotional idiots.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:59 pm to CatFan81
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So you want women to not have sex? To go against human nature? That's absurd. But then, men telling women what they should and shouldn't be able to do with their own bodies is absurd not matter what the issue is.
Where did I say any of that? Do you not understand the basics of how a pregnancy occurs?
Posted on 8/19/15 at 2:59 pm to CatFan81
quote:
Yep. Let's force people living in poverty to take on a child that they don't want, having to depend on welfare, so that taxpayers like you can bitch about having to support the children that you want to force them to have.
Who forced them to get pregnant in the first place? Did the people you're demonizing by "bitching about having to support the children" make them have these babies, or did the parents make a stupid life altering decision?
quote:
Let's clog the foster care system, in which children are abused on a daily basis so that foster parents can make some extra cash, with even more unwanted children whose chances at adoption are already very slim.
Interesting you bring that up. As a family entering the foster system, the state will actively attempt to make sure that the child ends back up with the parent regardless of the consequences for the child. Especially minority children.
quote:
Especially if said child isn't a lily white baby.
As a family that would love to foster to adopt ANY baby, did you know there's an organization that only exists to make sure I do not adopt a black child? They would rather the child stay in the system than let me foster and adopt a black child.
Posted on 8/19/15 at 3:00 pm to CatFan81
quote:
But then, men telling women what they should and shouldn't be able to do with their own bodies is absurd not matter what the issue is.
Actually, we're telling you what you shouldn't do to someone else's life...but the left has brainwashed many in this country into believing an unborn baby isn't a lifeform.
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