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re: I see no reason for concern - latest video from Iran's Supreme Leader
Posted on 9/14/15 at 11:21 am to Alahunter
Posted on 9/14/15 at 11:21 am to Alahunter
We got everything, and more, of what we were looking for in the framework "deal" hammered out back in April. The majority of nuclear and arms proliferation experts think it is a good deal and that it will prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons for at least the next 25 years.
They also agreed to centrifuge inspections by the IAEA, which is the biggest win of the deal and is a win for us.
Agreed.
Only if you fall for neo-con propaganda.
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Them. Ok, we will inspect our nuclear weapons sites.
They also agreed to centrifuge inspections by the IAEA, which is the biggest win of the deal and is a win for us.
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Oversimplification? Yes
Agreed.
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Accurate? Yes.
Only if you fall for neo-con propaganda.
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Posted on 9/14/15 at 11:29 am to 3nOut
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we still have prisoners there and the state department didn't even mention it in negotiations. that's a bit of a red flag to how little we asked or how little we negotiated.
Complete red herring. This was an arms negotiation, not a hostage negotiation. We got everything we asked for that was in the framework deal from April. Bringing up the prisoners is just an attempt to obfuscate the situation, and create a straw man.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 12:08 pm to The Spleen
Yeah...umm, no. Kerry surrendered nearly everything we originally asked or wanted. I am sure it will be just as successful as the deal made with N. Korea though.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 12:14 pm to Alahunter
It's the room to bring the EU and China back on the sanctions game if Iran acts out that is the good part of the deal. The deal isn't a win, but I do think it puts us in a better position to deal with Iran's nuclear ambitions.
I remain cautiously optimistic about the deal, with cautiously being the important word.
I remain cautiously optimistic about the deal, with cautiously being the important word.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:00 pm to The Spleen
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Complete red herring. This was an arms negotiation, not a hostage negotiation. We got everything we asked for that was in the framework deal from April. Bringing up the prisoners is just an attempt to obfuscate the situation, and create a straw man.
how the frick is it a red herring? we have prisoners being held for ridiculous reasons, one of which is aUS military serviceman. i'm not trying to deflect from anything, else in the treaty, i'm just saying that's it's a big deal that we sat down with a country to negotiate, and this didn't come up.
dude, you know i'm not an Obama pot banger and don't blame the guy for everything like those on the Poli board, but not addressing those in the negotiations is complete bullshite.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:17 pm to 3nOut
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how the frick is it a red herring?
Because the negotiation for the release of prisoners is irrelevant to an arms negotiation, especially when several other countries were party to the negotiations. We should be working to free those prisoners and get them home, but there is a time and place for that. Criticizing the arms deal over it diverts attention from the merits, or lack thereof depending on your position, of the arms deal.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:26 pm to Duke
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It's the room to bring the EU and China back on the sanctions game if Iran acts out that is the good part of the deal
China will always do what China wants to do. This deal will do nothing to encourage them to bring sanctions if Iran doesn't fulfill what they're supposed to do.
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The deal isn't a win
Agree. I would characterize it as a loss. As it will empower them further and give them the opportunity to fund terrorism to a larger degree with money and assets freed back up to them.
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but I do think it puts us in a better position to deal with Iran's nuclear ambitions.
They were finally feeling the squeeze from sanctions. All of it was for naught.
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I remain cautiously optimistic about the deal, with cautiously being the important word.
I wished I could be even a little. I feel this will come back to bite the U.S. in the arse, in the end. Hard.
I don't know if you've ever seen this, but I'm in complete agreement with Adm. Lyons here
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:31 pm to 3nOut
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we have prisoners being held for ridiculous reasons
For espionage. Only one is being held for a "ridiculous" reason and he knew what he was getting in to when he went over there trying to establish churches. The pastor served his time and should be released and the spies should be dealt with equal to way Americans deal with those held in Guantanamo.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:38 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
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Only one is being held for a "ridiculous" reason and he knew what he was getting in to when he went over there trying to establish churches. The pastor served his time and should be released and the spies should be dealt with equal to way Americans deal with those held in Guantanamo.
I don't share your opinion.
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Jason Rezaian is a 39-year-old dual American-Iranian citizen who was stationed in Tehran to cover regional affairs. Rezaian has been a correspondent for The Washington Post in Tehran for two years, covering stories from a growing baseball scene in Iran to local corruption.
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Robert Levinson was kidnapped in 2007 from Kish Island off of Iran, where he was working for a rogue CIA operation.
Levinson is the longest-held American hostage in the history of the U.S., as he has been missing for over eight years
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Pastor Saeed Abedini met his wife in Tehran, shared his faith in Tehran, and is now imprisoned in Tehran.
Abedini had traveled to Iran multiple times starting in 2009 in the efforts to construct an orphanage.
Abedini was convicted a year later to serve eight years in Evin Prison for starting local home churches.
He is frequently subjected to beatings by prison guards, psychological torture and long periods of solitary confinement.
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Visiting aging relatives led to the death penalty for the then 28-year-old ex-Marine.
Amir Hekmati, a dual citizen of Iran and the United States, served the United States from 2001 to 2005 as a Marine specializing in linguistics.
He visited Iran for the first time in 2011 in order to celebrate Ramadan in Tehran with his extended family.
Hekmati never made it to the celebration, however, as he was taken by Iranian authorities and wasn’t heard from until a week later.
This post was edited on 9/14/15 at 1:39 pm
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:44 pm to Alahunter
As i said, 3 spies and a pastor.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 1:49 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
1, perhaps. Kidnapped, not on Iranian soil.
There's no reason their release shouldn't have already been negotiated, especially the guy who has been there 8 yrs.
Just like there was no reason to capitulate to a country of bottom dwelling humans who ascribe to a hate filled doctrine that encourages murder, rape and mutilation at the word of a pedophile, heathern prophet.
There's no reason their release shouldn't have already been negotiated, especially the guy who has been there 8 yrs.
Just like there was no reason to capitulate to a country of bottom dwelling humans who ascribe to a hate filled doctrine that encourages murder, rape and mutilation at the word of a pedophile, heathern prophet.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 2:03 pm to Alahunter
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hina will always do what China wants to do. This deal will do nothing to encourage them to bring sanctions if Iran doesn't fulfill what they're supposed to do.
A China in an economic transition facing some trying times ahead. They'll need some help going forward and guess who will be there to help them? Not Iran.
It's the EU end that matters the most though.
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I would characterize it as a loss. As it will empower them further and give them the opportunity to fund terrorism to a larger degree with money and assets freed back up to them.
They also need to throw money at infrastructure and other projects. I doubt the influx of money is going to cause significantly more funding toward Hezbollah, Hamas, and the like. Their terrorist also are aligned with our interests with ISIS.
Not that it makes it better, but it beats the alternative.
Look, if you think the west should have waited longer to come to the table to let the sanctions keep going...I can understand it.
I just don't see much blowback relative to the status quo. They aren't going to drop a nuke. I take hope from getting Iran to the table and making some agreement. I don't see much good but also don't believe there's much downside either.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 2:29 pm to Duke
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just don't see much blowback relative to the status quo. They aren't going to drop a nuke
They won't drop a nuke. But they will get one sooner rather than later, imo. And I'm betting there will be an even bigger increase in turmoil in the M.E. when they increase funding to further destabilize with their funding of factions. Maybe the majority won't go to groups like Hezbollah, Hamas and the like.. but a very significant amount that will make a difference will.
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I take hope from getting Iran to the table and making some agreement
There is only an agreement, because we gave them everything.. EVERYTHING.. they wanted and got practically nothing that we went in wanting. Of course they signed on.
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also don't believe there's much downside either
Time will tell. Their "religion" teaches them to lie and obfuscate to achieve their goals. It's a mistake to trust them and to think they have good intentions.
This is just another sign of weakness by the U.S. and will be looked at by them as such. Not since Jimmy Carter has the U.S. had such a weak standing in world affairs as it does now.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 2:39 pm to Alahunter
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when they increase funding to further destabilize
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their "religion" teaches them to lie and obfuscate to achieve their goals.
:lol:Posted on 9/14/15 at 2:49 pm to Alahunter
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But they will get one sooner rather than later
No they won't. This deal will prevent that.
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There is only an agreement, because we gave them everything..
What are some things we gave them?
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It's a mistake to trust them and to think they have good intentions.
It's also a mistake for them to trust us. That is a two way street. Remember, we gave them the shah.
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Not since Jimmy Carter has the U.S. had such a weak standing in world affairs as it does now.
I guess you have a point if you want us to be the world's bully. Our global image has improved though since Bush left office.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 3:12 pm to The Spleen
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This deal will prevent that.
No. It doesn't. It lets the fox guard the henhouse.
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What are some things we gave them?
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in 2013 the goal of international sanctions was for "Iran to dismantle its nuclear program." Chief U.S. negotiator Wendy Sherman said a final agreement would involve "a lot of dismantling of their infrastructure."
Obama had said Fordow's existence was not consistent with a peaceful nuclear program; and Kerry said the heavy water plant at Arak "is unacceptable."
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Iran agreed to repurpose the Fordow facility to isotope production and nuclear research rather than uranium enrichment, Kerry said Tuesday. The same process can also be used to enrich uranium. Hundreds of uranium enrichment machines in Fordow will be idled but not dismantled.
The U.S. sought access for inspectors to perform snap inspections anywhere nuclear work is suspected, including at military sites.
The deal allows inspectors to access "any site they deem suspicious," Iranian objections to some visits will be handled through a dispute settlement process, according to the agreement - And they get to self inspect and are given up to 24 days before an inspection.
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The U.S. goal was to require Iran to give a full accounting of its past actions
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Kerry said the United States already knows with certainty what Iran did in the past and that a full accounting is less important than monitoring what it does in the future.
The U.S. had sought to limit Iran's nuclear program for decades.
Iran agreed to limit uranium enrichment and ship its uranium fuel overseas for 10 years
And Iran will get $100 Billion in assets unfrozen.
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I guess you have a point if you want us to be the world's bully
I'd rather us be a bully than a place mat in world relations.
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Our global image has improved though since Bush left office
You're fricking delusional. Even our allies are publicly stating they can't trust us.Posted on 9/14/15 at 3:17 pm to Alahunter
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'd rather us be a bully than a place mat in world relations.
Because there is no huge middle ground between the vast polar opposites.
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You're fricking delusional. Even our allies are publicly stating they can't trust us.
Funny you dont get the irony of this post in a thread about Iran. Shows how historically dumb you are.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 3:20 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
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Because there is no huge middle ground between the vast polar opposites
Did they get middle ground on their assets? No. They got 100% access and if you think the 'snapback' will be instituted under anything less than a nuke being discovered, I have some ocean front property in Oklahoma to sell you.
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Funny you dont get the irony of this post in a thread about Iran. Shows how historically dumb you are.
That was towards the comment about us having more respect internationally now than 8 yrs ago. I'm not ridiculous to think it wasn't bad under Bush, but it's even worse now.
And I'll stand by my statement, that dealing and giving them any relief unless they give up more is like giving a criminal a full auto on the promise they'll do better on their own word. Islam is nothing but a breeding ground for animals, and their Gov't is run by Islamic fascists.
This post was edited on 9/14/15 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 9/14/15 at 3:38 pm to Alahunter
So we didn't give them everything. The thing about negotiations is there is give and take. We gave a little, they gave a little, and we reached a compromise.
Well the good news for you is that with our military, we'll never have to worry about being a place mat.
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I'd rather us be a bully than a place mat in world relations.
Well the good news for you is that with our military, we'll never have to worry about being a place mat.
Posted on 9/14/15 at 3:41 pm to The Spleen
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We gave a lot, they gave very little
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Well the good news for you is that with our military, we'll never have to worry about being a place mat
Unless of course, we have people like Kerry negotiating for us. Who knows.. with the latest order from Obama, we might even become more like Minneapolis is becoming on a nationwide scale. Who doesn't love radical Islam spreading within our borders?
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