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re: Fellow alabamians, who are you celebrating today?

Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:59 pm to
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:59 pm to
IMO, they both have things that they should be honored for, and as with any man, both had shortcomings as well. I don't know why there's a need to pit them "against" each other in respects to how each should be viewed. Each can stand on their own merits as to why they are honored with a holiday.

eta - I think a mistake many make, is deifying a man, when in the end, he was still.. simply a man.

eta again - I'm about positive the wife beating thing was debunked. The adultery was substantiated and tapes were made by Kennedy. They're sealed by a Judge's order until 2027.
This post was edited on 1/20/14 at 3:08 pm
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:10 pm to
Brief history, as I remember it from a college class at Alabama 17 years ago. So obviously take it with a grain of salt.

Alabama had recognized Robert E Lee's birthday on his actual birthday, January 19th, for several decades when the MLK Day was signed into law as a Federal Holiday. Alabama was faced with doing away with Robert E Lee Day, having 2 state holidays really close together, or combining the two holidays. It seems silly now that they share a day, but I think it was a pretty decent compromise at the time to honor them both on the same day.
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:12 pm to
Sounds about right. Arkansas, Mississippi, Georgia and Florida all also recognize Lee's as a state holiday.
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:14 pm to
I believe it was Arkansas that for years made state employees choose between taking Robert E Lee Day or MLK Day off. I think they eventually combined them as well.
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:15 pm to
I'm not too sure why they did, only that it was in the early to mid 80's that they officially recognized it as a State holiday.
Posted by TbirdSpur2010
ALAMO CITY
Member since Dec 2010
134026 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:18 pm to
I'm celebrating a day off, don't really care whose name is attached to it.

And my opinion is valid in this thread because my birthplace is Montgomery
Posted by Carolina Tide
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2013
5747 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:31 pm to
quote:

He was also a womanizer and beat his wife. But most don't talk about that side of him.



And Lee owned other human beings. Your point is?


Also a link where Dr. King beat his wife. Neither Coretta nor the King children made any mentions of beatings.
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:33 pm to
Lee was actually one of the only Confederate generals that didn't own any slaves. He owned some briefly when he inherited his father-in-law's estate, but gradually freed them. He was staunchly against slavery.

Ulysses S. Grant did own slaves, however. Weird coincidence.

Actually, disregard that. Lee never really freed them. My mistake.
This post was edited on 1/20/14 at 3:41 pm
Posted by pvilleguru
Member since Jun 2009
60453 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:44 pm to
He did set them free, but most stayed on the farm and worked for him.
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:49 pm to
Lee was a product of his time in relations to some of his thoughts on slaves. He was however, as you pointed out, staunchly against it. But you can see from his writings, the thought process of his time.



quote:

Robert E. Lee letter dated December 27, 1856:


I was much pleased the with President's message. His views of the systematic and progressive efforts of certain people at the North to interfere with and change the domestic institutions of the South are truthfully and faithfully expressed. The consequences of their plans and purposes are also clearly set forth. These people must be aware that their object is both unlawful and foreign to them and to their duty, and that this institution, for which they are irresponsible and non-accountable, can only be changed by them through the agency of a civil and servile war. There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age, who will not acknowledge that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race, and will prepare them, I hope, for better things. How long their servitude may be necessary is known and ordered by a merciful Providence. Their emancipation will sooner result from the mild and melting influences of Christianity than from the storm and tempest of fiery controversy. This influence, though slow, is sure. The doctrines and miracles of our Savior have required nearly two thousand years to convert but a small portion of the human race, and even among Christian nations what gross errors still exist! While we see the course of the final abolition of human slavery is still onward, and give it the aid of our prayers, let us leave the progress as well as the results in the hands of Him who, chooses to work by slow influences, and with whom a thousand years are but as a single day. Although the abolitionist must know this, must know that he has neither the right not the power of operating, except by moral means; that to benefit the slave he must not excite angry feelings in the master; that, although he may not approve the mode by which Providence accomplishes its purpose, the results will be the same; and that the reason he gives for interference in matters he has no concern with, holds good for every kind of interference with our neighbor, -still, I fear he will persevere in his evil course. . . . Is it not strange that the descendants of those Pilgrim Fathers who crossed the Atlantic to preserve their own freedom have always proved the most intolerant of the spiritual liberty of others?


quote:

So far from engaging in a war to perpetuate slavery, I am rejoiced that Slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interest of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this that I would have cheerfully lost all that I have lost by the war, and have suffered all that I have suffered to have this object attained.


quote:

They do not know what they say. If it came to a conflict of arms, the war will last at least four years. Northern politicians will not appreciate the determination and pluck of the South, and Southern politicians do not appreciate the numbers, resources, and patient perseverance of the North. Both sides forget that we are all Americans. I foresee that our country will pass through a terrible ordeal, a necessary expiation, perhaps, for our national sins.


quote:

Robert E. Lee opposed Slavery, and had freed the slaves he inherited from his Wife's estate long before the war. One of them, William Mac Lee, chose to stand by Robert E. Lee's side throughout the war, serving as his cook and confidant. This former slave and friend described Lee with these words, "I was raised by one of the greatest men in the world. There was never one born of a woman greater than Gen. Robert E. Lee".
Posted by Carolina Tide
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2013
5747 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:50 pm to
Yeah I believe he set them free after his death. And at least he spoke upon slavery as a "necessary evil", but an evil non the less.
This post was edited on 1/20/14 at 6:31 pm
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 3:52 pm to
quote:

He did set them free, but most stayed on the farm and worked for him.


He kept some, partially through the war, and released all in 1862.

quote:

Some slaves had very close relationships with the Lee and Custis members, though these relationships were very much governed by the racial hierarchy which existed between the slaves and slaveholders. Mr. Custis relied heavily on his carriage driver, Daniel Dotson, and Mrs. Lee had a very personal relationship with the head housekeeper, Selina Gray. As Mary's arthritis increasingly restricted her activities through the years, she depended on Selina for assistance with basic tasks. A reflection of their relationship, Mrs. Lee entrusted Selina with the keys to the plantation at the time of the Lees' evacuation from Arlington in May 1861.

There is evidence that some slaves at Arlington had opportunities which were not widely afforded to slaves elsewhere. Mrs. Custis, a devout Episcopalian, tutored slaves in basic reading and writing so that each could read the Bible. Mrs. Lee and her daughters continued this practice even though Virginia law prohibited the education of slaves by the 1840s. Mrs. Custis also persuaded her husband to free several women and children.

Some of these emancipated slaves settled on the Arlington estate, including Maria Carter Syphax who lived with her husband Charles on a seventeen acre plot given to her by the Custises at the time of her emancipation around 1826.

While such allowances may have improved the quality of life for the Arlington slaves, most black men and women on the estate remained legally in bondage until the Civil War. In his will, George Washington Parke Custis stipulated that all the Arlington slaves should be freed upon his death if the estate was found to be in good financial standing or within five years otherwise. When Custis died in 1857, Robert E. Lee—the executor of the estate—determined that the slave labor was necessary to improve Arlington's financial status. The Arlington slaves found Lee to be a more stringent taskmaster than his predacessor. Eleven slaves were “hired out” while others were sent to the Pamunkey River estates. In accordance with Custis's instructions, Lee officially freed the slaves on December 29, 1862.

Posted by genro
Member since Nov 2011
61788 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 4:44 pm to
Upside: our state-run liquor stores stayed open today
Posted by BowlJackson
Birmingham, AL
Member since Sep 2013
52881 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 5:51 pm to
quote:

I've lived in Alabama my whole life and never heard of anyone celebrating Lee.
Posted by The Calvin
Member since Jun 2013
5240 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 6:23 pm to
Happy to recognize what Dr. King was fighting for..a true leader

With that being said I don't really "celebrate" either. Lived in ba for 5 years and had some not all rednecks celebrating lees bday
Posted by The Calvin
Member since Jun 2013
5240 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 6:23 pm to
Happy to recognize what Dr. King was fighting for..a true leader

With that being said I don't really "celebrate" either. Lived in ba for 5 years and had some not all rednecks celebrating lees bday
Posted by Carolina Tide
Atlanta
Member since Jul 2013
5747 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 6:32 pm to
I know a few people celebrate it in South Carolina but, you know, that's South Carolina.
This post was edited on 1/20/14 at 6:33 pm
Posted by Dawggy_Style
Member since Oct 2013
558 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 6:50 pm to
I'm not in Alabama either, but today is definitely MLK day.

I happen to collect Lee stuff, but that's just a weird sex thing.
Posted by Nimbus2000
Member since Jun 2013
1250 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 7:38 pm to
My cousin who passed away in a car crash was born Jan 19th.... so probably still her.
This post was edited on 1/20/14 at 7:40 pm
Posted by Rambler
NWA
Member since Jan 2011
1205 posts
Posted on 1/20/14 at 9:34 pm to
I lived in Virginia when the MLK holiday was more-or-less mandated by the Feds. Virgina already had a state holiday for Robert Lee and Stonewall Jackson, called Lee-Jackson Day, so they just added King to it.

When I later encountered Yankee newcomers who asked about Lee-Jackson-King Day, I told them it was for Spike Lee, Michael Jackson, and Don King.
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