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re: Evolution of a church: Priests allowed to forgive abortion.
Posted on 9/1/15 at 11:57 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
Posted on 9/1/15 at 11:57 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
The way I remember my Bible, Christ was very explicit about forgiveness, and a sinner's relationship with God.
Christ advocated -- and even demanded -- individual relationships between man and the Trinity. He never mentioned churches, or bishops, or priests, or confession booths. He mentioned love, forgiveness, dedication, compassion, repentance, and humility. The way to salvation is explicit. And it requires no man's permission.
The church created those rules to serve itself. And as a Christian, they offend me.
Christ advocated -- and even demanded -- individual relationships between man and the Trinity. He never mentioned churches, or bishops, or priests, or confession booths. He mentioned love, forgiveness, dedication, compassion, repentance, and humility. The way to salvation is explicit. And it requires no man's permission.
The church created those rules to serve itself. And as a Christian, they offend me.
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Posted on 9/2/15 at 12:36 am to No Colors
quote:
He never mentioned churches
The importance of having a "church" as well as a community of believers working together in general are mentioned a countless number of times in the Bible.
quote:
or bishops,
The church most definitely had a hierarchy in Scripture. Peter was named the head on Earth, and there were apostles/disciples/"elders of the church"/etc. mentioned many, many times throughout the Bible.
quote:
or priests
There are so many references to clergy in Scripture that there isn't enough space available here to cite even a fraction of the verses that cover this issue.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 12:38 am to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
Pope Francis will give all priests discretion during the Roman Catholic Church's Holy Year to formally forgive women who have had abortions -- the Argentine pontiff's latest move towards a more open and inclusive church.
A bit misleading. They have to show a true acceptance of wrong doing, and it's only for one year.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 12:45 am to Wild Thang
quote:
and it's only for one year.
You really think that makes it better? I think a strong argument could be made that it makes it even more ridiculous. If you believe in something you stand behind it. Not act wish washy to test the waters.
This post was edited on 9/2/15 at 12:47 am
Posted on 9/2/15 at 12:46 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
Isn't the Pope a little like God Incarnate -- I mean not literally or even completely supported by most Catholics like that, but I've always felt like he could make mandates and it would be accepted as the word of God.
I am a confirmed Catholic, but kind of lost my way with them about 15 years ago.
The pope isn't at all 'God Incarnate' from what I recall.
I honestly can't remember if his 'mandates' are considered word of God.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 12:46 am to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
You really think that makes it better?
I didn't say either way. Just saying the headline isn't total in the context.
eta: Like I said a post above or so, I lost my way with the Church a little bit. I still believe for sure, but I just have some issues with some of it fwiw.
This post was edited on 9/2/15 at 12:49 am
Posted on 9/2/15 at 12:56 am to Dawg in Beaumont
quote:
I'm not seeking to turn this into a Catholic bashing thread, but how is the practice of seeking forgiveness through some intermediary explained in the Roman Catholic Church?
I've always viewed it as an accountability thing. Jesus left the Church. He left it to be an active, engaging, and guiding force. Confessing your sins can be embarrassing and humbling. I've always admired the Catholics/Orthodox for confession. A lot of Protestants I know would benefit from it.
quote:
I've always been disturbed by that but never researched the issue.
Well. When most Protestants talk about the clergy vs the laity, they say something anecdotal along those lines. In one sentence, it attempts to validate that there is something fundamentally wrong with Catholicism, but also reveals that they care so little about WHY that actually "disturbs them" they don't even go through the effort to figure out why God would make over 90% of Christians to ever walk the earth go through the effort. They don't question why God got it wrong, but they know he did. It would be quite strange if we didn't know that man was an arrogant and self serving creature, and confession is hard on them. Avoiding it is the much easier route.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 12:59 am to No Colors
quote:
The church created those rules to serve itself. And as a Christian, they offend me.
I think you need to meet a Catholic Priest, and look at the sacrifice they've made, and their intentions in what they do. I've liked most Catholic Priests far more than I have any Protestant pastor/youth leader/preacher. Most of the latter are snake oil salesmen.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 1:02 am to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
Catholic church continues to evolve to keep up with sociological changes in order to better sell it self to the population.
I don't think I can disagree with this statement
It's an interesting conversation
But abortion has always been open to forgiveness by God for the truly repentant
The Catholic Church's stance doesn't dictate to God His position
Posted on 9/2/15 at 1:25 am to StrawsDrawnAtRandom
quote:
. ''Eternal punishment should only be issued for eternal sin, the most deserving of hell should be the people who slandered god's name by creating it.'' -- Paraphrasing, but Asimov was pretty ahead of his time.
I mean this in the most literal and kind way possible as a Christian.
I literally want you to take a dildo and GFY. You're the worst athiest I've ever known. You should feel bad about yourself and how you've let Carl Sagan and Richard Dawkins down
Posted on 9/2/15 at 5:51 am to Rebel Land Shark
quote:
So if I were to kill someone but I accept Christ as my lord and savior all my sins are forgiven?
Absolutely.
Literally half of the New Testament was written by a mass murderer of Christians.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 6:32 am to JustGetItRight
Posted on 9/2/15 at 6:44 am to TeLeFaWx
quote:
In one sentence, it attempts to validate that there is something fundamentally wrong with Catholicism, but also reveals that they care so little about WHY that actually "disturbs them" they don't even go through the effort to figure out why God would make over 90% of Christians to ever walk the earth go through the effort. T
You completely misunderstood what I was saying. I don't understand the practice completely and on the surface don't completely agree with it but I'm admitting that I've been lazy in researching it. Pretty much a confession on my end.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 7:17 am to BlackPawnMartyr
It's funny, when I was a Christian I thought the Catholics were the wrong kind of Christians. Now that I don't believe and can look at the church objectively, I recognize they are the only Christian Church that has even the smallest chance of actually being right. If Christianity is true, then Catholicism is true.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 7:55 am to Roger Klarvin
Lol@nonCatholics...
Martin Luther and the King of England founded your silly little offshoots...
Martin Luther and the King of England founded your silly little offshoots...
Posted on 9/2/15 at 8:01 am to Rebelgator
quote:
Lol@nonCatholics
Seriously. I'm oft surprise at what people don't know about the oldest Christian demonination.
Every time Francis comes out and says something the media goes nuts. OMG the Catholic Church is changing for modern times. Then you read what he said and...
It's nothing new.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 8:04 am to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
You really think that makes it better? I think a strong argument could be made that it makes it even more ridiculous. If you believe in something you stand behind it. Not act wish washy to test the waters.
Again, nothing about the doctrine has changed. All that has changed is the mechanism for absolution.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 8:18 am to TheDude321
quote:
There are so many references to clergy in Scripture that there isn't enough space available here to cite even a fraction of the verses that cover this issue.
Ok. Quote me one time where Jesus mentioned the Church.
Posted on 9/2/15 at 8:33 am to TheDude321
Turned into a pissing match.
This post was edited on 9/2/15 at 11:38 am
Posted on 9/2/15 at 8:34 am to No Colors
quote:
Ok. Quote me one time where Jesus mentioned the Church.
Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
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