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re: Evidence found of Jesus's origins
Posted on 10/11/13 at 10:49 am to cokebottleag
Posted on 10/11/13 at 10:49 am to cokebottleag
quote:
CokeBattleAg.
Aslan is an islamic sociologist who's expertise is in writing Islamic Apologetics. I'll read his book on Christ when I read Mein Kampf.
"Mein Kampf" is actually a fascinating read as well. It certainly provides valuable insights into Hitler's psyche. But reading it would actually require one to read something which is not already in accord with one's preconceptions. And reading it would require a desire to actually understand another's thinking, no matter how deplorable. Tough, that.
One need not be Russian to study and write about Russia, and one need not be Christian to study and write about Christianity.
Aslan's research is thorough, his sources (many of which I have read) are reputable, and his analysis is reasonably-sound, though I do not agree with absolutely all of his conclusions.
For contrast, I suggest that you read "Liars for Jesus," a study of the "Fundamentalist Christian" books regarding American history (many of which I have also read) (David Barton, for example).
Those guys ... wowsers. I have never seen such transparent drivel masquerading as scholarly work.
"Liars" does not pretend to be a "scholarly" work. Basically, it simply consists of excerpts taken from those books, where they make reference to earlier historical documents which allegedly support the concept that Christianity was intended to be a part of U.S. government. The author then quotes the entirety of the relevant portions of the historical documents in question, allowing the reader to see the omissions, misquotations and outright fabrications contained with the Fundamentalist faux-histories.
Then she moves on the next "Fundamentalist" claim, with very little independent analysis. Her approach seems to be "Here is the data. See for yourself."
I had trouble believing that the Fundamentalist authors would think they could "get away with" this degree and extent of fabricated data, so I actually pulled many of the historical documents myself. In EVERY case, the author of "Liars" was correct, and the Fundamentalist was indeed guilty of the fabrication outlined therein.
Publishing that nonsense would get these guys canned from any reputable academic institution in the country, but millions of Americans take their work as "Gospel." Amigos, that is a VERY frightening thought.
This post was edited on 10/11/13 at 11:15 am
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Posted on 10/11/13 at 11:00 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Maybe not at that time, during that discussion.
But the very existence of these discussions DOES cause reasonable, intelligent people to constantly re-examine their spiritual beliefs. (The same is not necessarily true of the close-minded on either side of the argument).
At a minimum, these discussions allow some people to develop a more-nuanced understanding of a religion that they continue observe. For some, these discussions even strengthen their beliefs.
For me, it was discussions just like this one that led me into studies of Deism/Unitarianism, a belief system that I share with many (though certainly not "all") of the Founders of this country.
honestly I don't care enough for others that I would want to help them out strengthen their beliefs or alter their way of thinking. If someone actually wants to discuss it with me i'll tell them what I think but other than that I could give two shits less if I convince someone to not be a christian or whatever they believe. That's like just their opinion man, it's not like any of it really matters.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 1:24 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
AggieHank86
You missed my analogy. Mein Kampf is useful: when researching hitler. When looking for a factual, well researched take on Jews, it shouldn't be your first stop.
quote:
One need not be Russian to study and write about Russia, and one need not be Christian to study and write about Christianity.
Of course, however see my above point. Some of the best American history texts are written by British nationals (who are historians by trade, not (to carry the analogy) archeologists).
I'm not a 'fundamentalist' Christian (I assume you refer specifically to protestant) by any means, although I grew up in a household that leaned that way.
However, when reading the works of a major apologist for one religion when they talk 'factually' of another religion, I either don't waste my time, or I take it with a huge grain of salt.
Its good to have an open mind, but accepting that everyone's opinions (and that's what they are when it comes to faith) are equally valid or worth consideration is folly.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 1:40 pm to The Spleen
quote:
I have a friend that I would label a militant Atheist. He is very open minded about it, and even goes to different churches all the time. He knows more about various religions than anyone I know. But yeah, many Atheists are pretty sanctimonious about their atheism and are just as annoying as the super religious people.
I find that whoever is more annoying is a function of their own narcissism. The most insane individual I knew was a "Christian". She thought ex boyfriends received "prophetic dreams" about her relationships, that "God's plan" involved her just "praying about it", which basically meant she would cry and take the easy and selfish way out, but somewhere in the process convinced herself that she had a spiritual trump card for everything she ever did. A complete narcissist, parading around a false sense of Jesus. She was incredible in bed though, I've still never found a girl to beat her.
In general, I find atheists to be the more unbearable. Their beliefs center more around others than their own. Whoever said intellectual masturbation is correct. Yes, the Christians lie to themselves and put on a charade. They worship a book of fairy tales, and don't ever deny that a large chunk of their beliefs is just social convenience. Atheists feel superior because they know this, or the simply reject the fairy tales. Either way they are living a charade as well because they take themselves so seriously that they believe knocking others is a way to enlightenment. Stupid.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 7:38 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
I find atheists to be the more unbearable. Their beliefs center more around others than their own.
Just stupid and the exact opposite. What a silly comment.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 7:43 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
Just stupid and the exact opposite. What a silly comment.
As someone that is agnostic, from my experience, the leap to atheism more often than not comes out of the spite for Christianity.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 8:42 pm to TeLeFaWx
I stand in amazement this thread is still going
Posted on 10/11/13 at 9:06 pm to Alahunter
quote:
I don't understand the need to attempt to tear down other peoples choice of a peaceful religion
Christianity did that for hundreds of years. Along with other much worse things to mankind. It arguably hurt more people than it helped. Things are obviously better these days, but that doesn't mean that religion should be immune to strong criticism.
quote:
I just find the hypocrisy amusing.
Yeah like religious people aren't hypocrites.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 9:16 pm to whodidthat
No. People with a quest for power twisted it to achieve what they wanted. Nowhere in Jesus' teachings does he advocate conquest and violence to achieve salvation or closeness to God.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 9:17 pm to Alahunter
Man gonna man
Posted on 10/11/13 at 9:29 pm to Duke
quote:
It's intellectual masturbation. "I'm soooo much smarter and more advanced than those idiot Christians."
You could say the same thing about Christians and their thought that "I'm going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell." It's afterlife masturbation, and an elitist attitude that what they believe is correct and every other religion on the planet is wrong.
I'm not saying your point about atheists is incorrect, but let's be fair, it goes both ways.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 9:38 pm to Stonehog
quote:
I'm not saying your point about atheists is incorrect, but let's be fair, it goes both ways.
Not on this particular forum.
Posted on 10/11/13 at 9:43 pm to TbirdSpur2010
How so?
Posted on 10/11/13 at 10:04 pm to Stonehog
Myself and other Christians on this site rarely (and in my case, never) go out of their way to proselytize or even start threads attempting to downplay or bad mouth atheists, agnostics, etc. And in threads where religion is brought up, I'll usually only go to bat when someone attempts to paint all christians with a broad brush or insinuate that my faith is ignorant, and most others on this site are the same. Not saying we don't have our bad eggs and pot stirrers, too, but go back and look at most of the "religion" threads or anything where Jesus is brought up and that's usually the case.
Not complaining, either, just calling it like I see it
Not complaining, either, just calling it like I see it
Posted on 10/11/13 at 11:23 pm to Robot Santa
quote:
All I know is that Jesus was a white Republican.
He was an American as well?
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