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re: Anyone ever realize this about Wisconsin (Wisconsin's shame)?
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:32 pm to 5thTiger
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:32 pm to 5thTiger
First off, anyone that isn't completely outraged by that story and the implications of it needs to step back and realize the ramifications of it. There is no justification whatsoever for allowing middle of the night searches of "John Doe" where the police come in and take all of the personal communication property of the accused (though they aren't accused of anything) while not allowing them to contact an attorney or speak to anyone about the investigation. Want to search me? Fine, but I have the right to know why and I have the right to consult an attorney to protect my rights. If you violate my rights you deserve to go down.
As to "when did this country go to hell", there is no singular moment. You could point to the Civil War and how Lincoln essentially through the Constitution in the garbage with the justification of "saving the country" by destroying it. Reconstruction that followed hammered that home, especially with the idea that the States who were brought back in to the US had to agree to new Amendments that they otherwise would not have agreed to and during Reconstruction the rights of the citizens of the conquered states were completely disregarded.
You could point to the early 1900's when multiple Amendments and acts were forced through under dubious circumstances that fundamentally changed how the government operated, the most important of which were the Federal Reserve and the Income Tax.
You could point to the FDR era where once again the Constitution was basically openly flaunted with the New Deal and things like Social Security and Federal Withholding that are completely Unconstitutional. FDR also essentially operated as a dictator who did not leave office until his death and had almost unlimited power with a stacked Supreme Court and a rubber stamp Congress.
You could point to the 60's and early 70's with the "Great Society" and far worse when Nixon pushed for the power of government agencies to greatly increase typically without Congressional approval.
I could go on and on. As of now the Constitution is really just an old piece of paper in a building. It is ignored so regularly now it really has little power. The Rule of Law is more about who is in control rather than under the ideals our country was founded.
As to "when did this country go to hell", there is no singular moment. You could point to the Civil War and how Lincoln essentially through the Constitution in the garbage with the justification of "saving the country" by destroying it. Reconstruction that followed hammered that home, especially with the idea that the States who were brought back in to the US had to agree to new Amendments that they otherwise would not have agreed to and during Reconstruction the rights of the citizens of the conquered states were completely disregarded.
You could point to the early 1900's when multiple Amendments and acts were forced through under dubious circumstances that fundamentally changed how the government operated, the most important of which were the Federal Reserve and the Income Tax.
You could point to the FDR era where once again the Constitution was basically openly flaunted with the New Deal and things like Social Security and Federal Withholding that are completely Unconstitutional. FDR also essentially operated as a dictator who did not leave office until his death and had almost unlimited power with a stacked Supreme Court and a rubber stamp Congress.
You could point to the 60's and early 70's with the "Great Society" and far worse when Nixon pushed for the power of government agencies to greatly increase typically without Congressional approval.
I could go on and on. As of now the Constitution is really just an old piece of paper in a building. It is ignored so regularly now it really has little power. The Rule of Law is more about who is in control rather than under the ideals our country was founded.
2
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:38 pm to aggressor
quote:
As to "when did this country go to hell", there is no singular moment.
So when was it so exceptional that it never had problems?
Edit: didn't comment on the OP article, because we are all in relative agreement that it was a politically driven article that was terribly written. No facts, no names, nothing but a one sided story that wasn't even accurate.
This post was edited on 4/22/15 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 2:49 pm to scrooster
Wisconsin has always been over the top politically. Joe McCarthy was from Wisconsin.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 3:28 pm to aggressor
quote:
First off, anyone that isn't completely outraged by that story and the implications of it needs to step back and realize the ramifications of it. There is no justification whatsoever for allowing middle of the night searches of "John Doe" where the police come in and take all of the personal communication property of the accused (though they aren't accused of anything) while not allowing them to contact an attorney or speak to anyone about the investigation. Want to search me? Fine, but I have the right to know why and I have the right to consult an attorney to protect my rights. If you violate my rights you deserve to go down.
As to "when did this country go to hell", there is no singular moment. You could point to the Civil War and how Lincoln essentially through the Constitution in the garbage with the justification of "saving the country" by destroying it. Reconstruction that followed hammered that home, especially with the idea that the States who were brought back in to the US had to agree to new Amendments that they otherwise would not have agreed to and during Reconstruction the rights of the citizens of the conquered states were completely disregarded.
You could point to the early 1900's when multiple Amendments and acts were forced through under dubious circumstances that fundamentally changed how the government operated, the most important of which were the Federal Reserve and the Income Tax.
You could point to the FDR era where once again the Constitution was basically openly flaunted with the New Deal and things like Social Security and Federal Withholding that are completely Unconstitutional. FDR also essentially operated as a dictator who did not leave office until his death and had almost unlimited power with a stacked Supreme Court and a rubber stamp Congress.
You could point to the 60's and early 70's with the "Great Society" and far worse when Nixon pushed for the power of government agencies to greatly increase typically without Congressional approval.
I could go on and on. As of now the Constitution is really just an old piece of paper in a building. It is ignored so regularly now it really has little power. The Rule of Law is more about who is in control rather than under the ideals our country was founded.
Well stated.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 3:35 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
So when was it so exceptional that it never had problems?
Edit: didn't comment on the OP article, because we are all in relative agreement that it was a politically driven article that was terribly written. No facts, no names, nothing but a one sided story that wasn't even accurate.
I read your reply on the previous page to my request that you clarify ... you failed.
I read the sentence above ........ "didn't comment on the OP article ... we are all in relative agreement that it was politically driven, terribly written, yada yada."
Again you failed.
You're not looking for intelligent, thought-driven debate .... you're just being a fricktard.
Therefore, frick off.
Oh, btw, you don't speak for us "all," neither relatively speaking or metaphysically speaking or any other kind of speaking. We're certainly not all in relative agreement of anything. I'm not even sure there are even one or two members around here who are in relative agreement about anything, much less with you or me ... but certainly not all. So, as I have already stated, you're a fricktard in my book and you just lost your debate privileges with me. You're the other end of the spectrum of the noob hipgnosis. You've got no balls, no heart, no soul. Both of you are an equal part of the problem, not the solution.
fricktards.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 3:41 pm to scrooster
quote:
You're the other end of the spectrum of the noob hipgnosis. You've got no balls, no heart, no soul. Both of you are an equal part of the problem, not the solution.
The article itself is an abomination by journalistic standards. No sources, no names, nothing of credibility. So when I say "relatively all," I mean most of the logical thinkers that agree the writing was awful. No matter the content, the writing was terrible.
I was being thoroughly honest when asking for "the point" in US history that you would like to return the United States to. You are pointing to certain points in history (in your mind) which had negative effects on our society. But that wasn't the point. I was asking you to tell me the precise point in time, which you would say the United States was so great, as opposed to what we are currently.
This post was edited on 4/22/15 at 3:48 pm
Posted on 4/22/15 at 3:45 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
I was be thoroughly honest when asking for "the point" in US history that you would like to return the United States to.
That is an excellent question for someone that just acted like the country is getting worse. But you arent going to get an answer, because he doesnt have one. Just deflections and squirming.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 3:57 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
I was being thoroughly honest when asking for "the point" in US history that you would like to return the United States to.
That's not the question you asked .... fricktard. You're already playing your typical leftist progressive liberal Saul Alinsky game .... frick you. Now, ask the question exactly like you asked it initially bitch. And you are a bitch because you play women word games.
quote:
You are pointing to certain points in history (in your mind) which had negative effects on our society. But that wasn't the point. I was asking you to tell me the precise point in time, which you would say the United States was so great, as opposed to what we are currently.
Again, that's not the original question you asked.
Secondly ... it's impossible to answer. There is no such thing as a precise point in time in which anything of significance changed for the better or the worse.
Thirdly, I've never, typed anything about any precise point in time when the U.S. was so great. I typed about our prior philosophy of encouraging exceptionalism - a point which you obviously wish to contend. But don't play word games asshat. If you want to have the discussion, fine ... that I can appreciate. But don't play fricking word games - I don't have the time or inclination at this point in my life to put up with that sort of bullshite when it comes to topics as serious as this.
What happened in Wisconsin is so criminal that people should be executed for it in my book. Take'em the frick out back, have a quick trial, and execute their fricking asses. Why? Because their actions could have caused, or could lead to, deaths of innocents. That's already been documented ... people who have their doors kicked-in at night should have the right to shoot back. People who are harassed by the government for political purposes should have the right to shoot back.
That's where all of this is going eventually.
So the people that would do it - they should be taken out of the system with extreme prejudice as a warning to others, "don't abuse the fricking powers that we the people granted your fricktard asses."
That's how I feel about it.
Posted on 4/22/15 at 4:10 pm to scrooster
quote:
Thirdly, I've never, typed anything about any precise point in time when the U.S. was so great.
That is why I clarified what I was asking.
quote:
I typed about our prior philosophy of encouraging exceptionalism - a point which you obviously wish to contend.
Do we not encourage exceptionalism today? Because I can find mounds of evidence that says we do, including multiple state legislators (republican mind you).
quote:
What happened in Wisconsin is so criminal that people should be executed for it in my book. Take'em the frick out back, have a quick trial, and execute their fricking asses. Why? Because their actions could have caused, or could lead to, deaths of innocents. That's already been documented ... people who have their doors kicked-in at night should have the right to shoot back. People who are harassed by the government for political purposes should have the right to shoot back.
So executing an officer who may have just been following orders is the right thing to do? Okay.
quote:
don't abuse powers
I think everyone, and I mean everyone, agrees that police and government officials should not abuse their powers. I don't think a single person has said, "yep, glad those cops broke into a ladies house."
quote:
You're already playing your typical leftist progressive liberal Saul Alinsky game
Uh, Nope. I'm actually just pointing out flaws in the article, and your argument in general. I haven't even argued for the opposite side. Only against your terribly constructed one.
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