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re: Ya'll are over analyzing things
Posted on 9/13/16 at 1:56 pm to CockInYourEar
Posted on 9/13/16 at 1:56 pm to CockInYourEar
quote:
I take the with a grain of salt. We have had 5 OL drafted on the past 5 drafts. Before that we had 5 OL drafted from 1993 to 2009...17 years.
I'm having a hard time pulling that site up on my phone for some reason ... not sure about drafted OLinemen but I know we've had a lot of OLinemen sign as free agents over the years.
And even then .... great college OLines are rarely gauged by draft status. Great college OLines are gauged by production. A couple of Elliott's OLines were made to look very good by Marcus Lattimore and Connor Shaw. Both of them turned negative plays into positive yardage more times than I can count.
I get it, I do. A lot of fans are endeared to Elliott for various reasons ... he's done a good job PRing himself to the fans and even to some of the administration. That's his forte. He plays the political game very very well and he is going to make a great FCS HC somewhere, some day. But we deserve a big time OLine coach. We deserve an SEC caliber OLine coach. We deserve a guy who can, first and foremost, teach our guys to line up and drive DLinemen off the ball. We have to be able to pick up the tough 3 and 4 yards on the ground from time to time.
Our OLine has underperformed, as a unit, for some years now. Draft picks not withstanding, what our OLine does as a unit is what really matters more than probably any other position on the field. It all starts right there in the trenches and I'm just not sure that Elliott is ever gonna be the guy to take us to the promised land.
But here's the deal that just baffles me. I hear our fans talking about it all the time at bars and restaurants and games and on the radio ... so why do our coaches in charge not see it?
Answer: Because Elliott is a good politician. His kids are protective of him, he knows how to play the PR game with the fans, he lucked up with the Dillman connection, he manipulated the interim coaching gig and he knows where a skeleton is buried. All of that combined makes it very difficult to get rid of him unless .... unless you find the perfect guy to replace him.
1
Posted on 9/13/16 at 5:17 pm to scrooster
quote:
Our OLine has underperformed, as a unit, for some years now. Draft picks not withstanding, what our OLine does as a unit is what really matters more than probably any other position on the field.
Elliott's OL has been middle of the pack to bottom 6 seasons in Sacks Allowed & middle to bottom 4 of 6 years in Rushing.
Sacks Allowed by year (SEC rank)
2010 - 30 (9th)
2011 - 30 (8th)
2012 - 38 (13th)
2013 - 23 (T7th)
2014 - 27 (11th)
2015 - 26 (7th)
Rush Offense by year (SEC rank)
2010 - 154/gm (8th)
2011 - 192/gm (3rd)
2012 - 138/gm (13th)
2013 - 198/gm (6th)
2014 - 161/gm (9th)
2015 - 154/gm (T10th)
here's a quick comparison in salary between Elliott ($430K) and a few notable OL coaches around the SEC/country.
Sam Pittman/UGA - $650K
Mario Cristobal/Bama - $475K
Matt Luke/Miss - $465K
Don Mahoney/UTK - $465K
Shawn Elliott/USC - $430K
Herb Hand/Aub - $420K
Jeff Grimes/LSU - $378K
Kurt Anderson/Ark - $370K
Rick Trickett/FSU - $585K
Robbie Caldwell/Pickens - $465K ($110K raise from 2015)
Stacy Searels/MiamiFL - $452K
is Elliott worth the $430K?
This post was edited on 9/13/16 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 9/13/16 at 5:27 pm to 1801
I may have heard it wrong, but the meeting I attended a couple of weeks ago ... we were told Elliott is now making $500k a year. That's half a million bucks a year for a mediocre to less than mediocre product.
I have not felt this cheated, like we are not getting our money's worth, since some of Brad Scott's staffs ... like Wally Burnham and some of those guys.
Edited: change "have" to "half" and I hate autocorrect.
I have not felt this cheated, like we are not getting our money's worth, since some of Brad Scott's staffs ... like Wally Burnham and some of those guys.
Edited: change "have" to "half" and I hate autocorrect.
This post was edited on 9/15/16 at 8:22 pm
Posted on 9/14/16 at 3:03 pm to scrooster
If Miles is ousted from LSU this year, Jeff Grimes may be available.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 12:47 pm to CockInYourEar
quote:okay so that is 5 good ones, maybe, as NFL teams do draft bad players quite often. Even so the offensive line has been abysmal here since Holtz.
I take the with a grain of salt. We have had 5 OL drafted on the past 5 drafts. Before that we had 5 OL drafted from 1993 to 2009...17 years.
LINK
Posted on 9/15/16 at 2:39 pm to ReadR00ster
quote:
okay so that is 5 good ones, maybe, as NFL teams do draft bad players quite often. Even so the offensive line has been abysmal here since Holtz.
When was the OL good? We've never had a decade long run of dominant OL's. I can't think of a 5 year period even when we had a OL that was elite in conference. Elliot has proven that he can develop talent, 2 guys drafted weren't even heavily recruited out of HS. There are some good stats in this thread about Rushing yards etc...I'd like to see a comparison going back to 99 on things like; Sacks Allowed, TFL's Allowed, Rushing Yards, etc....
Is Elliott the best OL coach we could have? {Yes and No: of course there are OL Coaches who statistically do better and who are even better recruiters at blue blood schools, but No b/c can we get them from those schools realistically?} I could think of several other guys, but he is a good evaluator of talent, recruiter, and can develop NFL talent, we've already seen that.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 3:38 pm to CockInYourEar
I thought I'd look at the #'s
Total OL drafted since 2010
Alabama: 10
Florida: 9
Georgia: 7
Arkansas: 5
Auburn: 5
OM: 5
Mizzou: 5
USC: 5
UT: 5
ATM: 5
LSU: 4
State: 2
Kentucky: 1
This makes us look pretty competitive when it comes to OL talent. However...
Average Draft Position of OL since 2010 (Throwing out Kentucky and State)
ATM 65.16
Bama 73.8
Tenn 94.75
Auburn 96.4
LSU 97.857
UF 109.333
Mizzou 115.625
UGA 123.5
Arky 125.2
OM 130.28
USC 156
Vandy 199.5
Looks like our boys are mostly of the "just in case someone gets hurt" variety.
Total OL drafted since 2010
Alabama: 10
Florida: 9
Georgia: 7
Arkansas: 5
Auburn: 5
OM: 5
Mizzou: 5
USC: 5
UT: 5
ATM: 5
LSU: 4
State: 2
Kentucky: 1
This makes us look pretty competitive when it comes to OL talent. However...
Average Draft Position of OL since 2010 (Throwing out Kentucky and State)
ATM 65.16
Bama 73.8
Tenn 94.75
Auburn 96.4
LSU 97.857
UF 109.333
Mizzou 115.625
UGA 123.5
Arky 125.2
OM 130.28
USC 156
Vandy 199.5
Looks like our boys are mostly of the "just in case someone gets hurt" variety.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 5:10 pm to 1801
If Elliot's salary is seriously that close to Mario Cristobal I will throw up.
Posted on 9/15/16 at 8:17 pm to GameCocky88
Alabama coaching salaries
It's close, but not that close.
Edit: Elliott makes way too much
It's close, but not that close.
Edit: Elliott makes way too much
This post was edited on 9/15/16 at 8:36 pm
Posted on 9/15/16 at 8:23 pm to GameCocky88
I double-checked today.
Elliott is the second highest paid OLine coach in the conference at $500k a year.
Elliott is the second highest paid OLine coach in the conference at $500k a year.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 6:43 am to scrooster
quote:
Elliott is the second highest paid OLine coach in the conference at $500k a year.
yikes
Posted on 9/16/16 at 8:04 am to scrooster
I think only Roper, TRob, and McClendon make more. I believe Lance T makes the same.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 8:32 am to GameCocky88
quote:
LSU: 4
That's pretty surprising.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 8:59 am to scrooster
quote:thanks Rooster. most of the salaries I found were from a USAToday article at the end of 2015. Trickett, Caldwell and Pittman were 2016.
I double-checked today.
Elliott is the second highest paid OLine coach in the conference at $500k a year.
if any OL coach is getting paid in the upper half of a conference one would hope the team could finish in the upper half in least number of sacks allowed as well as rushing more often than not.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 9:01 am to scrooster
For comparison, Brian Ferentz at Iowa is paid $317,500. Iowa has put 8 OL in the draft since 2010 with the ADP of 117. That's including 3 first rounders. With that being the case, I refuse to believe the "we can't get anyone better" logic.
Posted on 9/16/16 at 10:34 am to GameCocky88
quote:
For comparison, Brian Ferentz at Iowa is paid $317,500. Iowa has put 8 OL in the draft since 2010 with the ADP of 117. That's including 3 first rounders. With that being the case, I refuse to believe the "we can't get anyone better" logic.
I think we could get someone better than Elliott, but just to point out, this guy we could probably not get. Brian's dad is HC Kirk Ferentz at Iowa, and he's only been there since 2012. Still he's put 5 OL in the NFL during that time and with a good ADP, which is very respectable.
IF Elliott for some reason was on the firing squad this year, we should look at Jeff Grimes from lsu, after they fire Les Miles.
Other guys, who have shown they can perform at a high level and that I think we get (no particular order):
A.) Ron Crook - WVU -$300K - (Not a big time recruiter, but has made a lot of All Conference OL'men and his offenses move the ball.)
B:) CHRIS KAPILOVIC - UNC - $251K - (as an OL/Off Coord...they grossly underpay him....He is a legit NC recruiter. Here's the guy who got Spain, Veal, Hatton, Sweet and Melton instead of us.)
C:) Robbie Caldwell - clemson - $355K - (knows SC, elite recruiter but has bags of help, former interim HC at Vandy, probably knows where all the bodies are buried, would make clemson fans melt if we got him, and they would probably match our offer though. However, he might want to get back to the SEC.)
D:) Neil Callaway - So Cal - (IF they fire this new coach this year, bring Callaway back to the East Coast. He made dominate OL's at WKU, he's from GA, lots of SEC experience.)
Posted on 9/16/16 at 11:26 am to CockInYourEar
Completely agree about not being able to get ferentz. Just using him as an example of someone doing more with and for less.
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