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re: MSU vs. KSU....
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:17 am to Pickle_Weasel
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:17 am to Pickle_Weasel
quote:
State plays against any team that can stop the run, then they are royally screwed, unless they put in a QB that is capable of completing a vertical pass.
yet he still threw 2 TD's Saturday and has 41 for his career.
0
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:23 am to Quicksilver
quote:
Kylin Hill is or will probably be better than Robinson but I agree that Fitz is no Dak.
Fitz is a better runner than Dak and its not close. Dak only had 588 yards rushing his Sr year and averaged 3.7 per carry. Fitz is averaging almost 7 yards per carry for his career. Dak was a better passer- it evens out.
Dak had 23 wins in his career as a starter- Fitz is at 16 and will most likely pass Dak in wins also.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:28 am to KeoDawg
Yes, Fitz is a better runner than Dak, and yes, Dak is/was a better passer, but no, it doesn’t even out.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:30 am to KeoDawg
quote:
Dak had 23 wins in his career as a starter- Fitz is at 16 and will most likely pass Dak in wins also.
I mean, that's not a fair comparison
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:31 am to AllbyMyRelf
quote:
Yes, Fitz is a better runner than Dak, and yes, Dak is/was a better passer, but no, it doesn’t even out.
Certainly doesn't even out if we ever get behind. Gotta have that threat.
I was reminded of that watching Mullen Saturday night. What is MSU's average time of scoring drive in the past 5-6 years?
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:49 am to koreandawg
quote:
can NF perform consistently from the pocket. He had two TDs in this game to wide open WR downfield and overthrew them by a mile.
Actually 4. Which is sad....
-Williams dropped a TD pass.
-Williams caught a TD
- Fitz under threw a wide open #87 (not sure who that is)
- Fitz over threw one.
quote:
I think he'll have to do better than that to have a shot at knocking off a Bama or Auburn.
Next 2 games will tell us a lot. That was a bigger stage, his first back and a lot going on in his mind. "Can I run. Can I take the hits. Can I stand in the pocket with out take a shot that messes my ankle up"
The fact he face the "fear" and ran it a lot... I assume he will better his average.
I really think their only concern is Bama on the road.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:52 am to Pickle_Weasel
Yall are freakin' nuts.
Even if he did have a terrible game (he didn't) you're looking at Fitz' first start, on the road against a not scrub team, since getting his foot rotated 180 degrees and declaring that he isn't a good passer and our passing game is a lost cause.
He had two (not four, not five, but two; no idea where y'all are getting these make believe numbers from) missed VERY deep throws (40+ yards in the air). Yes, they likely would have been touchdowns if he completed them, but it's not like they were easy throws to make. I saw Drew Brees miss two deep 'would-have-been-touchdown' passes on Sunday, but nobody is saying he's a terrible passer. He'll miss those and complete those on occasion just like every other quarterback. And I'd rather see him overthrowing the deep route than miserably short-arming it like KT did in game 1. IMO he had one really 'bad' throw, and that was the interception.
There were no less than 4 drops on the game which will obviously bring your percentage down. He had several mid-range passes that were absolute dimes, just beautiful and right where they needed to be. The TD pass to AW was masterful.
Finally, Fitz's passing perception suffers from his running ability. Generally, when you stretch the field with deep routes and don't have an open receiver most quarterbacks are going to dump it to their check down for an easy 5-8 yard completion. Fitz sees 15 yards of grass and a linebacker in front of him, he's running not throwing. You're just not going to see him pumping those completion numbers up with 6 yard check downs when he has the option to run it for 10 yards.
I thought Fitz played great and managed the game perfectly. All of this criticism is crazy unwarranted. I'm not claiming he's Heisman contending Mr. Wonderful, but he isn't holding this offense back at all.
Even if he did have a terrible game (he didn't) you're looking at Fitz' first start, on the road against a not scrub team, since getting his foot rotated 180 degrees and declaring that he isn't a good passer and our passing game is a lost cause.
He had two (not four, not five, but two; no idea where y'all are getting these make believe numbers from) missed VERY deep throws (40+ yards in the air). Yes, they likely would have been touchdowns if he completed them, but it's not like they were easy throws to make. I saw Drew Brees miss two deep 'would-have-been-touchdown' passes on Sunday, but nobody is saying he's a terrible passer. He'll miss those and complete those on occasion just like every other quarterback. And I'd rather see him overthrowing the deep route than miserably short-arming it like KT did in game 1. IMO he had one really 'bad' throw, and that was the interception.
There were no less than 4 drops on the game which will obviously bring your percentage down. He had several mid-range passes that were absolute dimes, just beautiful and right where they needed to be. The TD pass to AW was masterful.
Finally, Fitz's passing perception suffers from his running ability. Generally, when you stretch the field with deep routes and don't have an open receiver most quarterbacks are going to dump it to their check down for an easy 5-8 yard completion. Fitz sees 15 yards of grass and a linebacker in front of him, he's running not throwing. You're just not going to see him pumping those completion numbers up with 6 yard check downs when he has the option to run it for 10 yards.
I thought Fitz played great and managed the game perfectly. All of this criticism is crazy unwarranted. I'm not claiming he's Heisman contending Mr. Wonderful, but he isn't holding this offense back at all.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 11:53 am to Jjdoc
Hopefully some of his inaccuracy issues are due to rust and getting used to the tweaked scheme.
Mullen rarely took deep shots down the field. Even though we're doing a poor job of connecting on them so far -- at least that threat is now in the MSU offensive arsenal.
We should get a much better read when we play Kentucky in a couple of weeks. That game is always fun and close anyway.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 12:15 pm to koreandawg
Nick needs to get better touch on his deep ball, no question about it. Moorehead seems to have it as a point of emphasis in his offense, where Mullen would take a deep shot or two a game, so I expect him to get better with it in the coming weeks.
October slates the Dawgs against Auburn, a bye week, LSU, and aTm, so that's the major deadline to get the passing game going. Though I'd be lying if I didn't say next week 6:00 at Kentucky doesn't have "trap game" written all over it.
October slates the Dawgs against Auburn, a bye week, LSU, and aTm, so that's the major deadline to get the passing game going. Though I'd be lying if I didn't say next week 6:00 at Kentucky doesn't have "trap game" written all over it.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 12:26 pm to Fe_Mike
Most were cupcake deep throws. He slings it instead of floats it deep. He also rushed them. You can't do that it doesn't get the WR time to run underneath and do his thing to win the ball. We need some more crossing routes and back shoulder throws to Austin williams that dude has great hands. We should be clicking on all cylinders on offense when florida comes in to play us. Fitz will have his timing down with his WRs and I think by then he will be better at dropping the deep ball in where it needs to be.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 12:27 pm to koreandawg
State has everything in place to challenge for the SEC championship except for a consistent downfield passing game. I think Auburn is State first real challenge and that's still a month away.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 12:29 pm to KeoDawg
quote:
Kylin Hill is or will probably be better than Robinson but I agree that Fitz is no Dak.
Josh Robinson was good but Kylin Hill has more talent in in his little toe than JR had
Posted on 9/12/18 at 1:22 pm to PineGroveBully
The biggest difference between Mullen and Moorhead's strategy is how deep the receivers routes are.
Those saying "Just focus on shutting down Fitz and Hill and we'll destroy them" have a fundamental misunderstanding of how football works. You can't just ignore the receivers. They are going to take up 4 guys and take them deep.
So now you have 7 on 7 which is a huge advantage for the QB and RB. It is going to take elite DL and LB play to slow them down, and even elite will not be able to do it every down.
Those QB runs that used to go for 5 yards are going to go for 12. And those swimg passes that would go for 10 are going to go for 40 because of how the Moorhead scheme positions the defense. Its interesting to watch for an X's and O's fan because while it feels the same as a Mullen offense, there are some huge differences.
Completion percentage is going to suffer in this offense. Mullen was big on 65% because his pass plays were short. Very rarely does a Mullen/Meyer offense go downfield. Short, tight throws.
In Moorhead's first year at Penn State, McSorley completed 57% of his passes but threw for 3600 yards. Penn State won 11 games in a tough division.
In 2014, Dak had a 61% completion rate, and threw for just 3400 yards.
Fitzgerald had two bad throws against KSU that were sure TDs and another really bad throw and the receivers had 5 drops. He completes half of those throws and he's at a 56% completion rate. It has to get better, but not exponentially. Just 3 or 4 more companions a game and he's on pace for what McSorley did at Penn State.
LSU, Alabama and Auburn won national championships with QBs that couldn't throw downfield. They had elite defenses, great offensive lines and great running backs. State has all three this year as well.
Those saying "Just focus on shutting down Fitz and Hill and we'll destroy them" have a fundamental misunderstanding of how football works. You can't just ignore the receivers. They are going to take up 4 guys and take them deep.
So now you have 7 on 7 which is a huge advantage for the QB and RB. It is going to take elite DL and LB play to slow them down, and even elite will not be able to do it every down.
Those QB runs that used to go for 5 yards are going to go for 12. And those swimg passes that would go for 10 are going to go for 40 because of how the Moorhead scheme positions the defense. Its interesting to watch for an X's and O's fan because while it feels the same as a Mullen offense, there are some huge differences.
Completion percentage is going to suffer in this offense. Mullen was big on 65% because his pass plays were short. Very rarely does a Mullen/Meyer offense go downfield. Short, tight throws.
In Moorhead's first year at Penn State, McSorley completed 57% of his passes but threw for 3600 yards. Penn State won 11 games in a tough division.
In 2014, Dak had a 61% completion rate, and threw for just 3400 yards.
Fitzgerald had two bad throws against KSU that were sure TDs and another really bad throw and the receivers had 5 drops. He completes half of those throws and he's at a 56% completion rate. It has to get better, but not exponentially. Just 3 or 4 more companions a game and he's on pace for what McSorley did at Penn State.
LSU, Alabama and Auburn won national championships with QBs that couldn't throw downfield. They had elite defenses, great offensive lines and great running backs. State has all three this year as well.
This post was edited on 9/12/18 at 1:26 pm
Posted on 9/12/18 at 5:17 pm to Rayburn8
Tebow could throw that ball, at least in college, much more accurately and that would really open up the offense as the safeties would have to respect that.
I think NF is a better runner and much more capable than TT of making explosive plays in the run game. But you can't just RPO all game vs. Bama, Auburn, maybe not LSU this year.
I think NF is a better runner and much more capable than TT of making explosive plays in the run game. But you can't just RPO all game vs. Bama, Auburn, maybe not LSU this year.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 5:18 pm to anc
I believe what you're saying but if he can't hit the deep pass it won't be as effective.
Posted on 9/12/18 at 5:36 pm to koreandawg
quote:
I believe what you're saying but if he can't hit the deep pass it won't be as effective.
Absolutely. Its the same thing in reverse with Ole Miss. The safety has to play back or you are going to get burned for six with them.
The scheme that Penn State and now MSU run under Moorhead creates a lot of space for the running back. Its fascinating to watch. Alabama and LSU will be able to contain it better than the rest of the schedule, and Fitz will have to hit the deep pass to keep them honest but you should really feel sorry for the teams on our schedule with weak front sevens. State is going to abuse them.
Watch some film
This post was edited on 9/12/18 at 5:46 pm
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