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re: Do you think the Civil War was started over slavery?
Posted on 2/14/15 at 12:22 pm to PikeBishop
Posted on 2/14/15 at 12:22 pm to PikeBishop
quote:
So we're 8 pages into this topic with no consensus in sight. One faction cites primary sources to support the idea that the slavery issue was the central cause of the war. Things like speeches, articles of secession, even the Confederate constitution which guaranteed slavery.
Another group gravitates towards a broader economic conflict theory in which an aggressive, capitalist, imperialist North forces war on a semi-feudal agrarian South, which only wants to be left alone. It's basically the Marxist interpretation of the war.
Odd that only we Southerners still go at it about this subject. I don't think Northerners are much interested in the war.
.... well, ummmm, they won. They got their way. Duh.
That doesn't mean it's over. We're allowed to be pissed about it for as many generations as we want until we are proven right and vindicated. We're allowed to hold-onto our anger and righteous indignation all the way to the grave and pass it to our offspring in the process ... that is our right as Southerners. And, btw, it's the best way to be.
5
Posted on 2/14/15 at 12:24 pm to scrooster
quote:
We're allowed to be pissed about it for as many generations as we want until we are proven right and vindicated. We're allowed to hold-onto our anger and righteous indignation all the way to the grave and pass it to our offspring in the process ... that is our right as Southerners. And, btw, it's the best way to be
This explains so much of your anger on the generational racism thread.
White power bitch.
Posted on 2/14/15 at 12:26 pm to scrooster
I, too, think "the best way to be" involves carefully cultivating generations of anger over the motives of people who died over a century ago.
Posted on 2/14/15 at 12:39 pm to scrooster
quote:
That doesn't mean it's over. We're allowed to be pissed about it for as many generations as we want until we are proven right and vindicated. We're allowed to hold-onto our anger and righteous indignation all the way to the grave and pass it to our offspring in the process ... that is our right as Southerners. And, btw, it's the best way to be.
What the frick.
Posted on 2/14/15 at 12:42 pm to PikeBishop
I also think it's telling that, as a whole, Texans tend to value/trumpet state pride over Confederate involvement.
Texas flags are ubiquitous, far moreso than their rebel counterparts.
And that makes me very proud
Texas flags are ubiquitous, far moreso than their rebel counterparts.
And that makes me very proud
Posted on 2/14/15 at 12:59 pm to scrooster
I don't think the fact that the North won the war explains its comparative lack of interest in the war, relative to Southerners. I mean, the Allies won WWII, but there is still a steady stream of books, films and references to it throughout our country. We won it and can't get enough of it.
Northerners I've met generally only have a grade school knowledge of the war. They know they won, Lincoln was president and then assassinated, and resulted in emancipation. That's about it for most. They're not chiming in on this war on Big 10 websites. It's like the War of 1812 to most of them. Remote and just not that interesting.
Northerners I've met generally only have a grade school knowledge of the war. They know they won, Lincoln was president and then assassinated, and resulted in emancipation. That's about it for most. They're not chiming in on this war on Big 10 websites. It's like the War of 1812 to most of them. Remote and just not that interesting.
This post was edited on 2/14/15 at 1:01 pm
Posted on 2/14/15 at 3:52 pm to TbirdSpur2010
quote:Texas' real mistake was 1845
I also think it's telling that, as a whole, Texans tend to value/trumpet state pride over Confederate involvement.
Posted on 2/14/15 at 4:32 pm to scrooster
quote:
That doesn't mean it's over. We're allowed to be pissed about it for as many generations as we want until we are proven right and vindicated. We're allowed to hold-onto our anger and righteous indignation all the way to the grave and pass it to our offspring in the process ... that is our right as Southerners. And, btw, it's the best way to be.
I don't even know where to begin.
Posted on 2/14/15 at 11:53 pm to PikeBishop
Northerners identifty as Americans, Southern folks identify as Southern
The Civil War is much more important to the southern identity than the American one. That's why they have moved on and it still facinates Southern folks. Hell a lot of the battles happened on Southern soil
The Civil War is much more important to the southern identity than the American one. That's why they have moved on and it still facinates Southern folks. Hell a lot of the battles happened on Southern soil
Posted on 2/15/15 at 11:31 am to Porker Face
Porker Face, I think that's a pretty plausible theory.
I've been to Gettysburg twice. Last time I made a point to take note of the license plates in the main parking lot. A good number from Ohio and Pennsylvania, with a few from Illinois and New York. Also some school buses from towns in the region. But I'd say there was a majority made up of all the states of the Confederacy. Interesting...
I've been to Gettysburg twice. Last time I made a point to take note of the license plates in the main parking lot. A good number from Ohio and Pennsylvania, with a few from Illinois and New York. Also some school buses from towns in the region. But I'd say there was a majority made up of all the states of the Confederacy. Interesting...
Posted on 2/16/15 at 9:48 pm to Porker Face
bump an interesting topic
Posted on 2/16/15 at 9:55 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
I don't even know where to begin.
Perhaps with a sense of humor?
lulz
You young people really need to learn not to take yourselves so seriously.
Sixty years from now young people will think they know everything and y'all will be looking at them as I am most of you now going, "sheeesh, what a bunch of know-nothing fricktards."
That is IF you manage to survive that long and the muslims haven't beheaded most of you pussies by then ... or worse yet, your wives.
Posted on 2/17/15 at 9:45 am to scrooster
Ok....
Lets flip the script on those that point out A. H. Stephens as the shining example of why the Civil War was all about ending slavery. Lets point out Lincoln's words about taxes...tariffs. When asked Why not let the Southern States go he stated, "Who will pay my tariff." Lincoln also stated that if he could save the Union without freeing a single slave he would. The estimate that only 20% of Southerners owned slaves is very generous. Less than 10% owned slaves. Virginia only left the Union when levied for troops to forcibly return the rest of the succeeding states to the Union. A captured Confederate enlisted man was asked why do you fight. He stated "Because you uns are here" referencing the invasion of the south. Succession was taught in West Point as a possibility that could be followed in a book that many generals on both sides used in class. My memory does not have the name of the book at present but I will look it up. Along these lines of thinking if the war was to "Restore the Union" because succession was unlawful why did the former Confederate States have to reapply to enter the union?
Lets flip the script on those that point out A. H. Stephens as the shining example of why the Civil War was all about ending slavery. Lets point out Lincoln's words about taxes...tariffs. When asked Why not let the Southern States go he stated, "Who will pay my tariff." Lincoln also stated that if he could save the Union without freeing a single slave he would. The estimate that only 20% of Southerners owned slaves is very generous. Less than 10% owned slaves. Virginia only left the Union when levied for troops to forcibly return the rest of the succeeding states to the Union. A captured Confederate enlisted man was asked why do you fight. He stated "Because you uns are here" referencing the invasion of the south. Succession was taught in West Point as a possibility that could be followed in a book that many generals on both sides used in class. My memory does not have the name of the book at present but I will look it up. Along these lines of thinking if the war was to "Restore the Union" because succession was unlawful why did the former Confederate States have to reapply to enter the union?
Posted on 2/17/15 at 10:06 am to NewbombII
quote:
Less than 10% owned slaves.
It was more like 25%
Posted on 2/17/15 at 10:19 am to Stonehog
flat out no way 25% of southerners owned slaves...
Posted on 2/17/15 at 10:23 am to NewbombII
quote:
flat out no way 25% of southerners owned slaves...
If you took out the amount of families that owned one or two, then you would be correct. If you add families that owned just one, then the number would likely be above or very near 25%.
Posted on 2/17/15 at 10:27 am to NewbombII
quote:
flat out no way 25% of southerners owned slaves...
That's the entire South. In some states 50% of the white population owned slaves.
Posted on 2/17/15 at 10:34 am to Stonehog
Tariffs.
Posted on 2/17/15 at 10:35 am to Stonehog
quote:
That's the entire South. In some states 50% of the white population owned slaves.
That is not true. Between 5-10% owned slaves, which included Indians and other Blacks. Look it up.
Posted on 2/17/15 at 10:37 am to everytrueson
Did you look it up? Because I've got the 1860 census record right here
You've got the Internet right in front of you, try googling something before you make an arse of yourself.
You've got the Internet right in front of you, try googling something before you make an arse of yourself.
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