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re: CFN: The SEC's 6-1-1 Disaster
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:19 pm to sarc
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:19 pm to sarc
quote:
Dear lord, go back and look at my first comment. I wasn't calling you intellectually dishonest, I was calling therick intellectually dishonest because he stated several times that the entire country is opposed to 6-1-1 whereas I've seen no evidence that the majority of the country cares one way or the other.
My bad. You responded to my post though so it threw me off.
1
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:21 pm to Tiger Authority
Don't think so but 
anyway
anyway
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:22 pm to sarc
quote:
that the entire country is opposed to 6-1-1
If there is a national (near) consensus on the SEC schedule I would say it's the 8 game slate, not the desired 9 game slate. I doubt those outside the league really care who the 9 would be.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:23 pm to sarc
quote:
Don't think so but
You're right, my mistake.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:26 pm to sarc
quote:
Dear lord, go back and look at my first comment. I wasn't calling you intellectually dishonest, I was calling therick intellectually dishonest because he stated several times that the entire country is opposed to 6-1-1 whereas I've seen no evidence that the majority of the country cares one way or the other.
Or once. I haven't seen a lot of support for this plan. Frankly, I haven't seen any (and I read a great bit of coverage trying to determine the 3 no-votes on the issue). Your comment was intellectually dishonest. You stated that one CFN article isn't the nation. If that were the issue, you would be right. There are more than just that article to consider. Hence my point that it dishonors your intellect to reduce this issue to whining.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:30 pm to therick711
quote:
Hence my point that it dishonors your intellect to reduce this issue to whining.
But this is their only way to stifle dissent. They don't have a valid argument based on an equitable solution, so they resort to calling us "scared" or "whiners" or a number of other things. They're just trying to bully their way to inflicting silence on the subject.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:30 pm to therick711
you'll never get a direct, honest answer to the issue of scheduling fairness. nor will you get a concession of the moral high ground.
you will get tons of deflection: whiners, scardy cats, only one fan base cares, that wasn't my post, take the vote like a man, we didn't get what we wanted, we must honor tradition, and on and on and on.
you will get tons of deflection: whiners, scardy cats, only one fan base cares, that wasn't my post, take the vote like a man, we didn't get what we wanted, we must honor tradition, and on and on and on.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:35 pm to SFVtiger
quote:
you'll never get a direct, honest answer to the issue of scheduling fairness. nor will you get a concession of the moral high ground.
you will get tons of deflection: whiners, scardy cats, only one fan base cares, that wasn't my post, take the vote like a man, we didn't get what we wanted, we must honor tradition, and on and on and on.
That's not true. We have had a pretty meaningful discussion in other threads on this topic. WDE actually was conceding points in give and take in another thread. The problem is certain Bama posters want to come in and throw gas all over it and make it about what happens on the field. That is their right. Others come in and make the point that long-term rivalries are paramount. They are entitled to their opinion just as I am entitled to mine.
I think some younger Bama posters aren't willing to get into nuance or live in a world where all the issues aren't black and white. You can believe that 6-1-1 is the best format while conceding the unassailable fact that it is neither equitable nor good for conference unity in football. Gray; learn to spot it.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:37 pm to therick711
quote:
Or once
quote:
It is funny how people construe a position that everyone but 10 teams in the SEC think is ridiculous as the "right" side of this debate. Look around, outside of the conference, universally the scheduling decision that came out of Destin has been derided as lunacy. Whining is what you use to cover your blind spot. If you can't recognize the articulate and legitimate reasons to change, that's on you.
If you just don't want it to change, that is acceptable. Saying that the position that LSU took that the rest of the country agrees is probably the best course for the conference is whining, is just lazy and intellectually dishonest. You dishonor your own intellect with such a comment.
I stand by my previous claim.
quote:
I haven't seen a lot of support for this plan. Frankly, I haven't seen any (and I read a great bit of coverage trying to determine the 3 no-votes on the issue)
And I haven't seen the plan universally derided as lunacy or the rest of the country agree with LSU's position. And I didn't reduce the issue to whining, I simply called you out for making a false - or exaggerated in the least - claim.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:37 pm to Tiger Authority
quote:
But this is their only way to stifle dissent. They don't have a valid argument based on an equitable solution, so they resort to calling us "scared" or "whiners" or a number of other things. They're just trying to bully their way to inflicting silence on the subject.
This.
No argument, therefore resort to ad hominem.
Oldest rhetorical trick in the book.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:37 pm to therick711
i'll take your word for it. i don't stick around that much. what i've posted is pretty much what i've seen, but i am not a frequent flyer.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 1:54 pm to sarc
quote:
And I haven't seen the plan universally derided as lunacy or the rest of the country agree with LSU's position. And I didn't reduce the issue to whining, I simply called you out for making a false - or exaggerated in the least - claim.
Not a single publication that I am aware of has said that the 6-1-1 plan is the best plan going forward. Most think some of the other compromises, such as the 9 game sked are preferable. Now perhaps out there is an article saying 6-1-1 makes the most sense, but I haven't seen it. Frankly, if it exists, I would love to see what the argument in favor of it looks like.
A good article laying out the options, and shockingly, picking something other than what we ended up with, as a sample of the general tenor of the national articles on the issue: LINK
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:11 pm to therick711
Well, you really don't have to go far to find an example of a pro 6-1-1 article. Here's one from The Shreveport Times: [link=(It makes proportionate sense and cents. LSU wanting to stop playing Florida so it can play Kentucky was disproportionate nonsense. This was LSU trying to be Texas in a way, and it failed)]Go to page 2[/link]
Again, you can pick a couple of articles criticizing the SEC's decision, I can probably find a couple supporting it if I wanted to put the effort into doing so. I just don't buy the claim that the entire country thinks it's a ridiculous decision.
quote:
It makes proportionate sense and cents. LSU wanting to stop playing Florida so it can play Kentucky was disproportionate nonsense. This was LSU trying to be Texas in a way, and it failed
Again, you can pick a couple of articles criticizing the SEC's decision, I can probably find a couple supporting it if I wanted to put the effort into doing so. I just don't buy the claim that the entire country thinks it's a ridiculous decision.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:11 pm to Tiger Authority
quote:
Tiger Authority
just wanted to come and laugh at you because we got our way
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:25 pm to sarc
quote:
you really don't have to go far to find an example of a pro 6-1-1 article. Here's one from The Shreveport Times
Glen Guilbeau, I presume. Whatever Guilbeau says is strong support for the opposite position. If there's a dumber, more obnoxious person in the world writing sports columns, I'm not aware of him.
And yes, I'm aware of frickbaum.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:27 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
Glen Guilbeau, I presume. Whatever Guilbeau says is strong support for the opposite position. If there's a dumber, more obnoxious person in the world writing sports columns, I'm not aware of him.
And yes, I'm aware of frickbaum.
The link didn't work for me. Shreveport times is likely Guilbeau, though. While the part you excised doesn't necessarily mean he was putting forth the 6-1-1 position (it could have been a 9 game plan), linking Guilbeau in your support is tantamount to linking bleacher report
I will say, even though the source is questionable, if it says what you purport it to say, that would be one more article than I thought was out there. Bully for you.
This post was edited on 6/5/12 at 2:29 pm
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:31 pm to Tiger Authority
quote:
they resort to calling us "scared"
Yes, and of course that is stupid. But not half as stupid as fricking Joe Alleva has been on this. What idiot in his position would not know that that is how this would be spun in the media? For the life of me, I'll never know what he thought he would accomplish by whining that "it's not fair", when LSU and Florida have won more SEC titles than anyone (in fact over half of all the SEC titles) in the 20 years of divisional play, all while playing each other every year. So, not only do the results on the field not back up his claim that we're at a disadvantage, but he also comes off as whining and, yes, scared.
If he would have simply stuck to the complaint that 6-1-1 won't allow us to play our rotating opponents often enough, he would have made more sense and maybe gotten a little more traction.
I'm really starting to dislike Alleva more and more all the time. I wish we would fire him ASAP.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:33 pm to therick711
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:34 pm to therick711
quote:
The link didn't work for me. Shreveport times is likely Guilbeau, though. While the part you excised doesn't necessarily mean he was putting forth the 6-1-1 position (it could have been a 9 game plan), linking Guilbeau in your support is tantamount to linking bleacher report
I will say, even though the source is questionable, if it says what you purport it to say, that would be one more article than I thought was out there. Bully for you.
Wrong response, therick. I didn't link to Guilbeau, the Bammer did. I don't click on Guilbeau links and never will if I can help it. That's why I have had to stop clicking on any links on the TD home page, since some of them link to him without warning and I refuse to add to his hit count.
But no, linking Guilbeau is not like linking Bleacher Report. Bleacher Report has a ton more credibility.
Posted on 6/5/12 at 2:34 pm to Nuts4LSU
quote:
So, not only do the results on the field not back up his claim that we're at a disadvantage, but he also comes off as whining and, yes, scared.
Your point is well taken on Alleva. The results have borne themselves out on the field however. Since 1990 we have played 22 times. LSU has won 7 of those match-ups.
ETA: Articles that think it is the right move for LSU to play Florida yearly are not saying that the 6-1-1 format is the correct call FWIW. A 9 game sked where LSU kept UF would accomplish the same thing and allow the cross-divisional teams to meet more often than every 12 years.
This post was edited on 6/5/12 at 2:40 pm
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