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I told myself I wouldn't get involved (Bama/UT)
Posted on 10/26/09 at 6:56 pm
Posted on 10/26/09 at 6:56 pm
BUT due to my hatred of SEC Refs, I had to post this. 
Isn't this pretty much the same thing that happened in the Bama game?
FWIW, and like others have said, it would be a chicken shite call to make.
quote:
Rudd's most (in)famous moment came in the 2002 season opener between the Browns and the Kansas City Chiefs. With less than 10 seconds left on the clock and the Browns clinging to a 39–37 lead, Chiefs quarterback Trent Green dropped back to pass, but the entire Browns defensive line swarmed him and it initially appeared that Rudd sacked Green. However, Green lateraled the ball to tackle John Tait just before he went down. Rudd did not see the play, however, and after getting up he threw his helmet in the air in celebration, thinking Green had been sacked and the game was over. Tait rumbled to the Browns' 25-yard line where he was knocked out of bounds.
That would have been the end of the game, but Rudd's premature helmet toss drew the Browns an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty which moved the ball to the 13-yard line (half the distance to the goal), and since football games by rule can not end on a defensive penalty, Chiefs kicker Morten Andersen booted a 30-yard field goal with no time left to win the game 40–39.
Isn't this pretty much the same thing that happened in the Bama game?
FWIW, and like others have said, it would be a chicken shite call to make.
This post was edited on 10/26/09 at 6:57 pm
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Posted on 10/26/09 at 6:58 pm to FootballHog
Did you hear the crowd after we blocked that kick, I wouldn't have made that call.
Posted on 10/26/09 at 7:01 pm to BamaScoop
would have needed helecopter gunships to get them out of the stadium if they threw that flag
Posted on 10/26/09 at 7:04 pm to FootballHog
It would have been right for the officials to throw the flag. However, since Bama recovered the ball the penalty would have only moved the spot back, Bama would still have posession.
Had Tenn recovered the ball, I don't believe (based on rules posted here today) the rule book would have allowed for a final untimed play.
You can't draw an apples to apples comparison between Bama/Tenn and the Chiefs/Brows situations.
Had Tenn recovered the ball, I don't believe (based on rules posted here today) the rule book would have allowed for a final untimed play.
You can't draw an apples to apples comparison between Bama/Tenn and the Chiefs/Brows situations.
Posted on 10/26/09 at 7:08 pm to PJinAtl
NFL rules. SEC Rules. Different rules. As the SEC has said...there was no penalty to call.
Posted on 10/26/09 at 7:11 pm to CrimsonCrush
See, I think there probably was a penalty to call if you go by letter of the rules, but it wouldn't have impacted the game.
As I said earlier today given the nature of the play and the emotion of the game, it was probably a good no call.
As I said earlier today given the nature of the play and the emotion of the game, it was probably a good no call.
Posted on 10/26/09 at 7:12 pm to CrimsonCrush
Jesus, even if it WAS called or WAS a pentalty, it wouldn't have been a re-kick.
And we recovered the ball.
Same outcome.
And we recovered the ball.
Same outcome.
Posted on 10/26/09 at 7:23 pm to FootballHog
quote:
Isn't this pretty much the same thing that happened in the Bama game?
Mmmm-no. KC still had possession of the ball when Rudd's helmet came off. Tennessee never established possession of the ball after Cody's block.
You're also comparing NFL rules to that of the NCAA.
Besides...the pics submitted clearly show the clock at 0:00 and Cody still had the helmet on. Game over.
Posted on 10/26/09 at 7:39 pm to bamascott2
quote:
Besides...the pics submitted clearly show the clock at 0:00 and Cody still had the helmet on. Game over.
Does a game end at 0:00? No its doesnt. If the play is still going the game is over. If you look at that picture yes his helmet is on, And yes the clock is at 0:00 but the play is still on because the ball has not been recovered by either team.
FIRST let it be known i do NOT think there should of been a penalty. No way should a game be decided by something like that. Cody's helmet being off didnt make him block the kick.
But theoretically if the ball did not pass the line of scrimmage, and since (from what i hear i didnt see it) Tenn. kicked the ball on third down. If Tenn has recovered it and the penalty would of been called then they would of gotten to try and kick it again. Kinda like the Northern Iowa/Iowa game earlier in the season.
BUT.....since Bama recovered AND the penalty wasnt called its game over and Bama wins....
Posted on 10/26/09 at 7:47 pm to FootballHog
pro vs college. and a different type of play. also, didn't bama recover the ball? gee, what's all the shite about. it was bamas ball for god's sake. kiffin is just shifting the sentiment of his fans. they are eating out of his hand.
Posted on 10/26/09 at 8:07 pm to FootballHog
The difference was a change of possession. Alabama alertly recovered the blocked FG attempt.
I do not know what would have been the proper call if YT recovered the blocked FG attempt behind the line of srimmage since they attempted the FG on 3rd down.
I do not know what would have been the proper call if YT recovered the blocked FG attempt behind the line of srimmage since they attempted the FG on 3rd down.
Posted on 10/26/09 at 8:12 pm to BamaScoop
quote:
Did you hear the crowd after we blocked that kick, I wouldn't have made that call.
Thanks for the point scoop, there was NO WAY the refs were going to call anything in that situation.
Yet, clearly a flag should have been thrown, regardless of its impact in the final score, and the flag was not thrown because it would have had to be against the tide and the refs just aren't "properly equipped" to make such a call in a hostile environment.
Posted on 10/26/09 at 8:17 pm to tigercavor
Something interesting about this whole helmet issue that has largely been overlooked:
Aren't you glad that the refs' seem have taken the SEC office's recent statements regarding celebration penalties to heart? I'm sure the refs in Tuscaloosa had that on their minds and probably left the flags in their pockets because of it. Just a thought.
Aren't you glad that the refs' seem have taken the SEC office's recent statements regarding celebration penalties to heart? I'm sure the refs in Tuscaloosa had that on their minds and probably left the flags in their pockets because of it. Just a thought.
Posted on 10/26/09 at 8:22 pm to tigercavor
As I said before, the flag should have been thrown, even if the rule would not allow for a rekick. You don't just fricking assume "well, it wouldn't have mattered anyway so why throw it." I have a feeling it's this same crap that makes it so there's never an interference call on a hail mary. "Why throw the flag? They won't catch it anyway."
With the talk already being about the officiating in the SEC, flags like that need to be thrown and then explained. If it doesn't matter, then why not throw it? Just throw it, come out, say "Unsportsman like conduct on fat arse, excessive celebration. By rule, it is a dead ball foul and the clock has expired. Game is over." Do that, and none of this talk is about the official. There would be a little talk about why it's not an untimed down, but that's it.
eta: ^^^ In response to that, this is a different case. This isn't a "was that too much of a celebration?" This is clearly written into the rules that a player that removes his helmet while a play is live is to be flagged. Plain and simple. No gray area.
With the talk already being about the officiating in the SEC, flags like that need to be thrown and then explained. If it doesn't matter, then why not throw it? Just throw it, come out, say "Unsportsman like conduct on fat arse, excessive celebration. By rule, it is a dead ball foul and the clock has expired. Game is over." Do that, and none of this talk is about the official. There would be a little talk about why it's not an untimed down, but that's it.
eta: ^^^ In response to that, this is a different case. This isn't a "was that too much of a celebration?" This is clearly written into the rules that a player that removes his helmet while a play is live is to be flagged. Plain and simple. No gray area.
This post was edited on 10/26/09 at 8:24 pm
Posted on 10/26/09 at 8:31 pm to Eternalmajin
quote:
As I said before, the flag should have been thrown, even if the rule would not allow for a rekick. You don't just fricking assume "well, it wouldn't have mattered anyway so why throw it." I have a feeling it's this same crap that makes it so there's never an interference call on a hail mary. "Why throw the flag? They won't catch it anyway."
With the talk already being about the officiating in the SEC, flags like that need to be thrown and then explained. If it doesn't matter, then why not throw it? Just throw it, come out, say "Unsportsman like conduct on fat arse, excessive celebration. By rule, it is a dead ball foul and the clock has expired. Game is over." Do that, and none of this talk is about the official. There would be a little talk about why it's not an untimed down, but that's it.
eta: ^^^ In response to that, this is a different case. This isn't a "was that too much of a celebration?" This is clearly written into the rules that a player that removes his helmet while a play is live is to be flagged. Plain and simple. No gray area.
I agree completely.
Posted on 10/26/09 at 8:39 pm to tigernchicago
My question is:
Which official was in position to throw the flag. THere is no way the head umpire was in position to see what was happening with both sidelines flooding the field. And, the back judge is blocked by the massive pile at the line of scrimmage. THe side guys would have been swarmed in players leaving the sideline.
I don't know that it was so obvious in live action to assume an official would have been conscious of the situation enough to throw the flag.
Which official was in position to throw the flag. THere is no way the head umpire was in position to see what was happening with both sidelines flooding the field. And, the back judge is blocked by the massive pile at the line of scrimmage. THe side guys would have been swarmed in players leaving the sideline.
I don't know that it was so obvious in live action to assume an official would have been conscious of the situation enough to throw the flag.
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