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Posted on 11/1/15 at 6:22 pm to jangalang
That makes no sense.
Even if the system is "stacked against you", you would still benefit from having the choice.
Even if the system is "stacked against you", you would still benefit from having the choice.
Posted on 11/1/15 at 6:30 pm to Weagle25
Actually, it makes perfect sense. Yours doesn't make sense though. How can a system be stacked against you end up being beneficial?
"gee whiz, we know that you're innocent but your court appointed attorney only gave a thirty second opening argument so you're going to prison. But don't worry, take this plea deal and you only have to serve ten years. You are really going to save the DA a lot of time and energy!"
"gee whiz, we know that you're innocent but your court appointed attorney only gave a thirty second opening argument so you're going to prison. But don't worry, take this plea deal and you only have to serve ten years. You are really going to save the DA a lot of time and energy!"
Posted on 11/1/15 at 6:34 pm to jangalang
I said nothing about the system as a whole. I was talking about plea deals.
Give me one reason why a plea deal would be unfair to the person receiving it because I can't think of even one that's semi-reasonable.
Give me one reason why a plea deal would be unfair to the person receiving it because I can't think of even one that's semi-reasonable.
This post was edited on 11/1/15 at 6:36 pm
Posted on 11/1/15 at 7:08 pm to Weagle25
Well I was talking about the system as whole, junior. And the plea deals do deprive the citizens of their right from a trial. Depending on the circumstances, the defendant's poverty level, and the competency of his/ her lawyer, a plea deal can coerce innocent people to accept the deal. With that said, our system would crumble without it so essentially plea dealing is a neccesary evil.
Posted on 11/1/15 at 7:18 pm to jangalang
quote:
Well I was talking about the system as whole, junior
You were countering my argument which wasn't about the system as a whole.
quote:
Depending on the circumstances, the defendant's poverty level, and the competency of his/ her lawyer, a plea deal can coerce innocent people to accept the deal.
So what you're saying is they have a choice? Tell me how that's a bad thing. If they make a bad choice that's on them. Don't tell me how it's not fair when you had the ability to change it.
This post was edited on 11/1/15 at 7:20 pm
Posted on 11/1/15 at 7:51 pm to Weagle25
If you got all of that in my last post then you have serious issues with reading comp. Some have no choice at all to defend their innocence. Do you even know what coercion means in relation to acceptance? Plea bargaining is straight up unconstitutional.
Posted on 11/1/15 at 8:26 pm to CaptainBrannigan
I think I'm misunderstanding you. You don't think someone guilty of those crimes
Deserves some prison time?
Deserves some prison time?
Posted on 11/1/15 at 8:29 pm to beatbammer
quote:
So now "justice" is vengeance on a plaintiff for pissing off the government? Not for the actual law that was broken?
No. You get plea deals in order to save the government expenses. Why do you think almost no one gets the maximum? What you get upon a guilty conviction is "for the actual law that was broken"
quote:
That sounds pretty fricked up to me. Know why?
lol can't wait to see this
quote:
Because it says in the CONSTITUTION that every citizen has a RIGHT to a fair trial.
It is a fair trial. Do you know what the Sixth Amendment says?
"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence"
quote:
So you're saying we have a justice system that punishes people for exercising their RIGHTS?
No. We have a justice system that punishes criminals. And will offer lighter sentences in order to save time and money.
Posted on 11/1/15 at 8:33 pm to CaptainBrannigan
Can anyone outline Dyer's role in the robbery? I know he provided the gun, but how did this lead to his dismissal? Did he try to hide the fact he provided the gun?
Posted on 11/1/15 at 8:35 pm to AUNashville
If I recall that did not get him dismissed. It was his continued use of MJ and synthetics that got him cut.
Posted on 11/1/15 at 8:49 pm to jangalang
He asked about a fair trial.
Just because you personally believe the penalties for a crime are too high, does not mean people are not receiving fair trials. You are not entitled to a plea bargain, let alone a good one.
Just because you personally believe the penalties for a crime are too high, does not mean people are not receiving fair trials. You are not entitled to a plea bargain, let alone a good one.
Posted on 11/1/15 at 8:53 pm to jangalang
quote:
If you got all of that in my last post then you have serious issues with reading comp.
Says the guy that can't even understand what the argument he is in is about.
quote:
Some have no choice at all to defend their innocence. Do you even know what coercion means in relation to acceptance? Plea bargaining is straight up unconstitutional.
Everyone has a choice to defend their innocence. You are guaranteed a trial if you want one. Period. End of story. Anything else is what you're choosing to do.
Posted on 11/1/15 at 8:56 pm to jangalang
That link changes nothing.
Without plea deals, I would be forced to risk the severe punishment.
With plea deals, I can take a safer route.
Without plea deals, I would be forced to risk the severe punishment.
With plea deals, I can take a safer route.
This post was edited on 11/1/15 at 8:57 pm
Posted on 11/1/15 at 8:58 pm to beaver
Well I guess the 6th amendment isn't the only amendment that involving fair trials. 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th and fourteenth all have some influence on the trial.
And to your second point, we are entitled to a fair trial. Some thing that a plea bargain cannot deliver.
And to your second point, we are entitled to a fair trial. Some thing that a plea bargain cannot deliver.
This post was edited on 11/1/15 at 9:00 pm
Posted on 11/1/15 at 8:58 pm to beaver
quote:
You are not entitled to a plea bargain, let alone a good one.
He's not even arguing that. He's actually arguing that plea deals are bad for the defendant...
Posted on 11/1/15 at 8:59 pm to Weagle25
Weagle. You are lost. Go to bed.
Posted on 11/1/15 at 9:01 pm to jangalang
No shite. I think I've probably studied the Constitution more than you.
I've also negotiated more plea deals than you.
who isn't getting a fair trial?
then take it to trial...you are more than welcome to take any case to trial
I've also negotiated more plea deals than you.
quote:
we are entitled to a fair trial.
who isn't getting a fair trial?
quote:
Some thing that a plea bargain cannot deliver.
then take it to trial...you are more than welcome to take any case to trial
Posted on 11/1/15 at 9:02 pm to Weagle25
Is he really arguing that plea bargains are forced onto defendants?
This post was edited on 11/1/15 at 9:06 pm
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