re: Will a Razorback ever get drafted?

Posted by Feral

Member since Mar 2012

12402 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 8:18 am to Hogsrunwild

quote:
I'm not sure there are enough lol's in the universe for your post. I certainly hope the future is bright, but to say that our CURRENT situation is better than it was under Petrino is just stupidity. Let us win a conference game before we go that far. We won more games every year under Petrino. That isn't white knighting or whatever you try to call it, that is pointing out facts. There is no need to really defend his coaching record, as the results speak for themselves. They are facts. Speculation about the future, I'll leave to you.

The discourse (to which you responded, by the way) was about draft picks, not a comparison of records.

Me, I don't really give a frick about the draft as much as I do recruiting, and that's where I'll tear down Petrino until pigs fly. The *fact* remains that our 2010 and 2011 classes were utter dumpster fires, with 2010 (the best player of which was a kicker) really taking home the trophy as GOAT bad recruiting class. Your boy crapping the bed on those two classes as bad as he did led to what you see now, as they'd have composed the core of our upper classmen of the 2012, 2013 and 2014 squads.

The 2010 and 2011 seasons were like writing a hot check for a sports car -- you can drive it off the lot and have all the fun you want, but the bill is coming.

Posted by Hogsrunwild

Member since Nov 2006

177 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 9:26 am to Feral

quote:
The discourse (to which you responded, by the way) was about draft picks, not a comparison of records.

We have 15 draft picks in the past 4 years. I would think that compares fairly well with other schools and most certainly better than the results on the field.

It is difficult to judge much of the 2010-2011 class because they were recruited for a specific system and after that day in 2012, when Petrino really fricked up bad, they received very little development.

Those classes wouldn't have been world beaters anyway, but hard to judge them based on 2013 under the clown and 2014 going through a completely different system. If you think ALL of last year is purely on recruiting the previous 4 years, then there really isn't much to help you.

Posted by Pigfeet

Ark Mods are Fascists

Member since Mar 2010

19783 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 9:49 am to ocelot4ark

quote:
It's fricking retarded not to put any of the blame for our current situation on Bobby.

Its fricking retarded to put the majority of the blame for our current situation on Bobby and George W.

Posted by hawgfaninc

https://youtu.be/torc9P4-k5A

Member since Nov 2011

46423 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 10:09 am to Hogsrunwild

quote:
but to say that our CURRENT situation is better than it was under Petrino is just stupidity.

nah

give me bert, pittman, shannon, etc over petrino and his clowns any day

also I'm trying to figure out what your connection to Petrino is for you to white knight so much for him. this isn't the first time you've white knighted for him. you've been a member since 2006 and yet your first post wasn't until we beat lsu in 2010. hmmm

btw after scimming all 76 of your posts I came across this gem. top 25 coaches of 2011

quote:
1. Nick Saban
2. Les Miles
3. Bill Snyder
4. Gary Patterson
5. Chris Peterson
6. Chip Kelly
7. Mike Gundy
8. Bret Bielema
9. Bob Stoops
10. Steve Spurrier
11. Bobby Petrino
12. Art Briles
13. Mark Dantonio
14. Frank Beamer
15. Brady Hoke
16. Kevin Sumlin
17. Lane Kiffin
18. Larry Fedora
19. Mark Richt
20. Dana Holgorsen
21. Mack Brown
22. Kyle Whittingham
23. Bronco Mendenhall
24. Charlie Strong
25. Mike London

bret >>>>> bobby

This post was edited on 5/12/14 at 10:28 am

2 ...

Posted by Feral

Member since Mar 2012

12402 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 10:15 am to Hogsrunwild

quote:
We have 15 draft picks in the past 4 years. I would think that compares fairly well with other schools and most certainly better than the results on the field.

Not really, and again, draft picks don't matter nearly as much as recruiting. It can indicative of recruiting efforts, but not holistically.

quote:
It is difficult to judge much of the 2010-2011 class because they were recruited for a specific system and after that day in 2012, when Petrino really fricked up bad, they received very little development.

That excuse/explanation only goes so far, and it hits a brick wall when you look at the fact that attrition is what killed those classes, specifically 2010. I used to know the numbers by heart (had to repeat it ad nauseum during 2012), but an ungodly number of 2010 signees weren't on the roster by the time the Cotton Bowl rolled around almost 2 years later. Something like 8 of the 25 signees weren't even on the roster by then. Seriously, just go look at that list:

Hogs 2010 FB 'croots

System unfamiliarity means nothing when it comes to attrition.

Posted by Pigfeet

Ark Mods are Fascists

Member since Mar 2010

19783 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 10:16 am to hawgfaninc

quote:
scimming all 76 of your posts

who does this?

Posted by hawgfaninc

https://youtu.be/torc9P4-k5A

Member since Nov 2011

46423 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 10:26 am to Pigfeet

quote:
who does this?

if it was more than 2 pages I probably wouldn't of done it

Posted by DaleDenton

Member since Jun 2010

42349 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 10:54 am to hawgfaninc

Last 2 NFL Drafts

SEC
LSU- 9 in 2014, 9 in 2013. 18 last 2 years
Alabama- 7 in 2014, 9 in 2013. 16 last 2 years
Florida- 4 in 2014, 9 in 2013. 13 last 2 years
Georgia- 2 in 2014, 8 in 2013. 10 last 2 years
South Car- 2 in 2014, 7 in 2013. 9 last 2 years
Arkansas- 4 in 2014, 4 in 2013. 8 last 2 years
Texas A&M- 3 in 2014, 5 in 2013. 8 last 2 years
Tennessee- 3 in 2014, 4 in 2013. 7 last 2 years
Missouri- 4 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 6 last 2 years
Auburn- 4 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 5 last 2 years
Vanderbilt- 3 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 5 last 2 years
Miss St- 1 in 2014, 3 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
Kentucky- 1 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 2 last 2 years
Ole Miss- 1 in 2014, 0 in 2013. 1 last 2 years

ACC
Florida St- 7 in 2014, 11 in 2013. 18 last 2 years
North Carolina- 5 in 2014, 5 in 2013. 10 last 2 years
Clemson- 5 in 2014, 4 in 2013. 9 last 2 years
Miami- 3 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 5 last 2 years
Syracuse- 2 in 2014, 3 in 2013. 5 last 2 years
Virginia Tech- 3 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 5 last 2 years
Boston College- 4 in 2014, 0 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
Louisville- 4 in 2014, 0 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
NC State- 1 in 2014, 3 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
Virginia- 3 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
Georgia Tech- 3 in 2014, 0 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
Pitt- 3 in 2014, 0 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
Duke- 1 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 2 last 2 years
Maryland- 1 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 2 last 2 years
Wake Forest- 1 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 2 last 2 years

Big 10
Ohio St- 6 in 2014, 3 in 2013. 9 last 2 years
Wisconsin- 5 in 2014, 3 in 2013. 8 last 2 years
Penn St- 3 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 5 last 2 years
Nebraska- 3 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 5 last 2 years
Michigan- 3 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 5 last 2 years
Illinois- 0 in 2014, 4 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
Iowa- 3 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
Michigan St- 1 in 2014, 3 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
Purdue- 2 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
Indiana- 2 in 2014, 0 in 2013. 2 last 2 years
Minnesota- 2 in 2014, 0 in 2013. 2 last 2 years
Northwestern- none drafted past 2 years

Big 12
Oklahoma- 4 in 2014, 6 in 2013. 10 last 2 years
Baylor- 5 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 6 last 2 years
West Virginia- 2 in 2014, 3 in 2013. 5 last 2 years
Kansas St- 1 in 2014, 3 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
Iowa St- 1 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
TCU- 1 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
Texas- 0 in 2014, 3 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
Oklahoma St- 1 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 2 last 2 years
Texas Tech- 2 in 2014, 0 in 2013. 2 last 2 years
Kansas- 0 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 1 last 2 years

Pac 12
Oregon- 4 in 2014, 5 in 2013. 9 last 2 years
Stanford- 6 in 2014, 3 in 2013. 9 last 2 years
UCLA- 5 in 2014, 4 in 2013. 9 last 2 years
USC- 3 in 2014, 4 in 2013. 7 last 2 years
Cal- 2 in 2014, 4 in 2013. 6 last 2 years
Utah- 3 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 5 last 2 years
Oregon St- 2 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
Arizona- 3 in 2014, 0 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
Arizona St- 3 in 2014, 0 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
Colorado- 1 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
Washington- 2 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
Washington St- 1 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 2 last 2 years

Others
Notre Dame- 8 in 2014, 6 in 2013. 14 last 2 years
Rutgers- 0 in 2014, 7 in 2013. 7 last 2 years
UCONN- 2 in 2014, 5 in 2013. 7 last 2 years
Boise St- 3 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
South Florida- 1 in 2014, 3 in 2013. 4 last 2 years
UCF- 2 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
Fresno St- 2 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
Nevada- 1 in 2014, 2 in 2013. 3 last 2 years
BYU- 1 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 2 last 2 years
Cincy- 0 in 2014, 1 in 2013. 1 last 2 years

Arkansas and Wisconsin have had the same amount of draft picks during this span, however, this draft was the first in 5 years Wisconsin did not have a 1st round pick and Wisconsin's picks average 1.5 rounds higher picked than Arkansas over this 2 year window.

Posted by Hogsrunwild

Member since Nov 2006

177 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 10:56 am to hawgfaninc

Maybe RMPL should be something you give a try sometime. Maybe our current staff will be awesome, but so far the results on the field haven't shown that, AT ALL. I certainly hope they do in the future, but to say that after 2010 and 2011, that we are in a better situation NOW is just plain dumb. Not trying to insult your intelligence, but really, that is a dumb thing to say.

Actual results > I hope some day.

As for white knighting, what the frick is that? You sure seem to like typing it. You also like acting like a jilted ex, trashing what your previous coach did. Hey, if it makes you feel better about going 0-fer in the SEC, go on with your bad self. Going over all my posts is just plain creepy. Seriously, stalker creepy.

Hey, another gem as long as we are going into the way-back machine of stupidity.

LINK

15. Bret Bielema, Wisconsin
Career Record: 49-16
The only question is recruiting ability. Barry Alvarez was able to load up with enough top-shelf talents to build Wisconsin into a powerhouse, and while Bielema is getting the guys who fit what he and the program want to do, at some point it would be nice if he could get a few more four and five star guys. On the hot seat three years ago, he came through and proved he could make UW a national title caliber monster. Now it’ll be about consistency. Outside of being badly outcoached in the Rose Bowl – RUN THE BALL – 2010 was special. Now he has to do it again.
Hot Seat Status: Remember, he 2009 was a prove-it season after a disastrous 2008 and he needed to come up with a big year to keep his job. However, he just got a contract extension.
The Coaching Change Will Come … Ten years. He’s just 41 and he’s going to get a few big offers if he has a few more big years. Wisconsin is big, but he could get an even higher-profile gig with a little more success.

7. Bobby Petrino, Arkansas
Career Record: 64-24
The Atlanta Falcons sure love him and the bridge to Louisville is still in ashes, but there’s no denying one possible fact: Bobby Petrino might be the best college football head coach without a championship. In just seven years as a college head coach, after bouncing around from assistant job to assistant job, he has led the way to three double-digit win seasons and five seasons with nine wins or more. And it’s not like he walked into a heater; he took what John L. Smith started at Louisville and made it better, and he stopped Arkansas from sliding once the Houston Nutt era fizzled out. Not only has he succeeded at both schools; he took each one to a BCS game in just a few years, and he might be just scratching the surface.
Hot Seat Status: None. He got the Hogs to the Sugar Bowl. He has a home for the next several years no matter what.
The Coaching Change Will Come … He’s still at Arkansas? The Larry Brown of football coaches has a reputation of always having one eye on the next move, and while he’s making close to $4 million a year and appears to be happy, he’s only 50 and Hog fans will always be a little worried that a late-night-downlow-Auburn-meeting type of job interview is on the horizon.

2 ...

Posted by DaleDenton

Member since Jun 2010

42349 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 11:02 am to Hogsrunwild

quote:
but to say that after 2010 and 2011

So after, 2009 when Bobby took the program from 18-9 to 13-12, were you saying the program was in a better place?

After Petrino took a Cotton Bowl team to the a losing record were you saying the program was improving?

Bert didn't inherit the 21-5 teams, all the contributors for that effort were long gone, he did inherit a 4 win squad who lost the key contributors on the field for that performance.

I'm sure you think it was Nutt's fault for Petrino having to play so many freshmen his first year but Bert's fault for having to play a higher total amount of freshmen last year than Petrino did in his first, because he didn't know how to use the talent that didn't remain from those recruiting classes.

2 ...

Posted by Feral

Member since Mar 2012

12402 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 11:09 am to DaleDenton

quote:
Maybe RMPL should be something you give a try sometime. Maybe our current staff will be awesome, but so far the results on the field haven't shown that, AT ALL

Again, first and second year results of a staff aren't exactly indicative of whether you're "in a better place" but rather show the fruition of earlier recruiting classes and development. Petrino going 5-7 doesn't mean the program was in a worse place in 2008 than in 2006 and 2007, despite the fact that the prior two years we'd had a Heisman runner-up, an SECCG appearance and berths in the Cotton and Cap One Bowls.

quote:
So after, 2009 when Bobby took the program from 18-9 to 13-12, were you saying the program was in a better place?

Beat me to it

quote:
Bert didn't inherit the 21-5 teams, all the contributors for that effort were long gone, he did inherit a 4 win squad who lost the key contributors on the field for that performance.

No kidding. I love how people try to act like Bert inherited a ridiculously stocked cupboard that was hitting on all cylinders. No, JLS inherited a pretty talented roster coming off a 21-5 record, while Bert inherited a mess of a roster and had to install new starters at QB, RB, OL, TE, WR, LB, and DB. No big deal, not like those positions do anything of import.

This post was edited on 5/12/14 at 11:15 am

Posted by DaleDenton

Member since Jun 2010

42349 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 11:50 am to Feral

At Arkansas, new coaches do not arrive because the previous coach was doing everything right and at a high level, we do not have coaches move on, on their own, we have coaches fired or forced out.

The two year comparisons, are well, interesting:

1996-97 Ford: 8-14 36.3%

1998-99 Nutt: 17-7 70.8%

2006-07 Nutt: 18-9 66.67%

2008-2009 Petrino: 13-12 52%

2011-12 Petrino/Staff: 15-10 60%

2013-14 Bert: TBD

Four year windows:

1994-1997 Ford: 20-26 43.4%

1998-2001 Nutt: 30-18 62.5%

2004-2007 Nutt: 27-22 55.1%

2008-2012: Petrino: 34-15 70.8%

2009-2013: Petrino/Staff: 33-18 64.7%

2010-2013: Program: 28-22 56%

I do not feel like breaking down conference records, facing top ranked opponents, W/L record against top opponents, etc which would be needed as all schedules are not the same.

This post was edited on 5/12/14 at 11:53 am

Posted by hawgfaninc

https://youtu.be/torc9P4-k5A

Member since Nov 2011

46423 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 11:54 am to Hogsrunwild

(no message)

This post was edited on 5/12/14 at 12:38 pm

Posted by gohogs141

Fayetteville

Member since Jun 2011

7515 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 1:14 pm to hawgfaninc

Were people really trying to argue that we had talent last year because we had 4 players drafted that included a kicker, center and fullback?

Posted by DaleDenton

Member since Jun 2010

42349 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 1:17 pm to gohogs141

Yes, that argument is being made.

Will Byron Jones get a chance to go to camp with a team?

Posted by Hogsrunwild

Member since Nov 2006

177 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 2:01 pm to DaleDenton

I think after 2009, you could see that things were most certainly getting better and the future looked bright. That came to pass in 2010 and 2011. In 2008, I don't think anyone could say, with certainty, that the program was in a better place. That would have been a guess, just like people saying that today we are in a better place than under Petrino. Until the on-field results start to show it, saying we are better off now is nothing than a guess or hope. It is a guess that I most certainly HOPE is correct, but it is not a fact that can be backed up with anything tangible.

Yes, Bert inherited a 4 win team but to say that was Petrino's team is a farce at best. Petrino hadn't been coach for about a year at that point and if you think the 2012 team would have only won 4 games under Petrino, should he not have royally screwed up, then we differ on that opinion. I think we can all agree that from April 1, 2012 until Bert took over, there was zero coaching and teaching going on. Hard to say what would have happened should the wreck have not happened.

As for Petrino's first year, I don't think he made 100% use of the talent there, but that wasn't what he was trying to do. I think he was trying to build the program and get players in place to play HIS style and he stuck with it. That paid off in 2010/2011. I hope Bert sticks to his guns and builds a program that HE wants and it nets us results in a year or two. We can hope.

Nice selective stats. Petrino coached 4 years and won 70%. Trying to put the year with fricking JLS on him is misleading unless you REALLY think that our record would have been the same if we didn't fire him...

This post was edited on 5/12/14 at 2:08 pm

Posted by DaleDenton

Member since Jun 2010

42349 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 2:37 pm to Hogsrunwild

quote:
Petrino hadn't been coach for about a year at that point and if you think the 2012 team would have only won 4 games under Petrino, should he not have royally screwed up, then we differ on that opinion.

Petrino fired towards the end of the spring practice in April of 2012, Bert hired in December of 2012.

That is not a year. The team was coached the majority of the spring of the year with Petrino on staff, the rest of that season was coached by a staff completely of personnel brought to Arkansas by Petrino. There was no change in the continuity of the program, same offense, same defense, same assistant coaches, Paul Petrino replacing McGee, a new DC who worked the bowl game prior and a new defensive assistant who worked under the DC previously.

The current staff is an upgrade over every member of Petrino's staff(s), improvement of coaching, decreasing of roster talent, simple as that.

quote:

Nice selective stats. Petrino coached 4 years and won 70%. Trying to put the year with fricking JLS on him is misleading unless you REALLY think that our record would have been the same if we didn't fire him...

Selective stats? What do you think 21-5 is? Equating 7th round draft picks to 4th round or higher?

Would the record have been the same? Possibly, Petrino struggled to beat FCS and ULM in the past with much better teams, would he have made a three year record similar to Shaw at Stanford? Doubtful. Would the 2013 and 2014 teams went 21-5, highly unlikely.

Posted by Pigfeet

Ark Mods are Fascists

Member since Mar 2010

19783 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 2:50 pm to DaleDenton

Does any of this really fricking matter? We won 2 SEC games in 2012, 0 in 2013, and most are hoping for 1 in 2014.

So maybe 2015, we might go .500

Everything is on the upswing, because its damn near impossible to be on a downswing. I agree with most on here, things are looking up.

Go Hogs and Bert is Fat

Posted by Feral

Member since Mar 2012

12402 posts

Posted on 5/12/14 at 3:15 pm to Pigfeet

quote:
Everything is on the upswing, because its damn near impossible to be on a downswing. I agree with most on here, things are looking up.

I think that's essentially the point I/we are trying to make. Things are looking up, and it looks as if Bert is truly building something. In the course of just two years, he's built a team with arguably the best backfield in the conference and a very solid young offensive line.

Nothing about Bert's tenure at Wisconsin gives me any reason to doubt he can build something similar, and I'm heartened by the fact that Andersen took over and had two 1,400 yard rushers and was a boneheaded officiating call at ASU away from 10 wins.

"Things are looking up" is not tantamount to saying "we're better off now than in 2010/2011."

This post was edited on 5/12/14 at 3:16 pm