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We need to go ahead and end this silly richt vs donnan think right now.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 8:44 am
Posted on 10/14/15 at 8:44 am
Some of you have gone off the deep end trying to do everything you can to convince everyone else how awful richt is. I'm not even really advocating he stay or go, it's just appalling how unhinged some of you are by trying to compare him to Donnan. For starters, it's convenient that you leave off donnan's worst year and only use the 4 year period of 97-00, while leaving off richt's best years. But hey, I can get on board with it. You wanna compare 97-00 to 11-14, let's do it. It's also amusing some of you trying to use some weird advanced metric of dividing and carrying the remainder to come up with some amount of losses per whatever....in case you didn't realize, the best equalizer in situations like that is win percentage...but I'll get to that shortly. First, the raw data.
-When I say "relevant opponents" below, what I mean is: All SEC opponents, All bowl opponents, GT, and all OOC games that aren't the charleston southern, NMSU, arkansas states of the world. I feel like that's an agreeable point.
-When I say "good wins", I count that as against teams that won 9 or more games.
1997
Relevant Opponent record: 74-45 (62%)
Tied for 2nd in east. East teams above us finished with 1 and 2 losses.
Losses: 10-3 AU, 11-1 UT
Good wins: 10-2 UF
1998-
Relevant Opponent record: 66-51 (56%).
Finished 3rd in east. Teams above us finished with 0 and 1 loss.
Losses: 13-0 UT, 10-2 UF, 10-2 GT
Good wins: 9-3 Virginia
1999-
Relevant Opponent record: 60-57 (51%)
Finished 3rd in east. Teams above us finished with 1 and 2 losses.
Losses: 9-3 UT, 9-4 UF, 5-6 AU, 8-4 GT
Good wins: None
2000-
Relevant Opponent record: 68-52 (57%)
Finished tied for 2nd in east. East winner had 1 loss.
Total of relevant OOC + SEC opponents: 268-205 (57%)
Losses: 8-4 SC, 10-3 UF, 9-4 AU, 9-3 GT
Good wins: None
_____________________________________________________
2011-
Relevant Opponent record: 95-60 (61%)
Won SEC east with 1 loss.
Losses: 12-1 BSU, 11-2 SC, 13-1 LSU, 11-3 MSU
Good wins: None
2012-
Relevant Opponent record: 83-59 (58%)
Won sec east with 1 loss.
Losses: 11-2 SC, 13-1 Alabama
Good wins: 9-4 Vandy, 11-2 UF, 10-4 Nebraska
2013-
Relevant Opponent record: 92-50 (65%)
Finished 3rd in east. Teams above us finished with 1 and 2 losses.
Losses: 11-2 Clemson, 12-2 Missouri, 9-4 Vandy, 12-2 AU, 9-4 Nebraska
Good wins: 11-2 SC, 10-3 LSU
2014-
Relevant Opponent record: 85-57 (60%)
Finished 2nd in east behind team with 1 loss.
Losses: 7-6 SC, 7-5 UF, 11-3 GT
Good wins: 10-3 Clemson, 11-3 Missouri, 9-4 UL
Donnan win percentage: 73%
Richt win percentage: 74%
win percentage of donnan's relevant opponents: 268-205 (57%)
win percentage of richt's relevant opponents: 355-226 (61%)
Win perc. of teams donnan lost to: 121-40 (75%)
Win perc. of teams Richt lost to: 149-38 (80%)
-For those who want to say Donnan's last 4 years were better than richt's, that's not true just right off the bat looking at win percentage.
-Richt has also faced tougher schedules than Donnan.
****For those who want to use the retarded argument that Richt has an extra game to increase his win total, think about this:
Richt has had 1 "extra game" twice in 4 years due to winning the east, something donnan never did. He lost both CCGs (to teams that would play in the national title), so for the sake of this exercise he's essentially punished for being better than donnan. As far as regular season OOC goes, the most noteworthy teams donnan scheduled were wyoming and UCF. While Richt had to deal with boise and clemson twice. So the whole "richt had an extra game to help him out" argument actually accomplished the exact opposite of waht the donnan backers think.
So to sum up, using both coach's last 4 years as our measuring stick:
-Richt has a better winning percentage
-Has better big name wins
-Played a tougher schedule
-Lost to tougher teams
-Won the division twice which donnan was never able to do
-Finished the season ranked higher (twice, 4th and 9th) than donnan ever did.
-When I say "relevant opponents" below, what I mean is: All SEC opponents, All bowl opponents, GT, and all OOC games that aren't the charleston southern, NMSU, arkansas states of the world. I feel like that's an agreeable point.
-When I say "good wins", I count that as against teams that won 9 or more games.
1997
Relevant Opponent record: 74-45 (62%)
Tied for 2nd in east. East teams above us finished with 1 and 2 losses.
Losses: 10-3 AU, 11-1 UT
Good wins: 10-2 UF
1998-
Relevant Opponent record: 66-51 (56%).
Finished 3rd in east. Teams above us finished with 0 and 1 loss.
Losses: 13-0 UT, 10-2 UF, 10-2 GT
Good wins: 9-3 Virginia
1999-
Relevant Opponent record: 60-57 (51%)
Finished 3rd in east. Teams above us finished with 1 and 2 losses.
Losses: 9-3 UT, 9-4 UF, 5-6 AU, 8-4 GT
Good wins: None
2000-
Relevant Opponent record: 68-52 (57%)
Finished tied for 2nd in east. East winner had 1 loss.
Total of relevant OOC + SEC opponents: 268-205 (57%)
Losses: 8-4 SC, 10-3 UF, 9-4 AU, 9-3 GT
Good wins: None
_____________________________________________________
2011-
Relevant Opponent record: 95-60 (61%)
Won SEC east with 1 loss.
Losses: 12-1 BSU, 11-2 SC, 13-1 LSU, 11-3 MSU
Good wins: None
2012-
Relevant Opponent record: 83-59 (58%)
Won sec east with 1 loss.
Losses: 11-2 SC, 13-1 Alabama
Good wins: 9-4 Vandy, 11-2 UF, 10-4 Nebraska
2013-
Relevant Opponent record: 92-50 (65%)
Finished 3rd in east. Teams above us finished with 1 and 2 losses.
Losses: 11-2 Clemson, 12-2 Missouri, 9-4 Vandy, 12-2 AU, 9-4 Nebraska
Good wins: 11-2 SC, 10-3 LSU
2014-
Relevant Opponent record: 85-57 (60%)
Finished 2nd in east behind team with 1 loss.
Losses: 7-6 SC, 7-5 UF, 11-3 GT
Good wins: 10-3 Clemson, 11-3 Missouri, 9-4 UL
Donnan win percentage: 73%
Richt win percentage: 74%
win percentage of donnan's relevant opponents: 268-205 (57%)
win percentage of richt's relevant opponents: 355-226 (61%)
Win perc. of teams donnan lost to: 121-40 (75%)
Win perc. of teams Richt lost to: 149-38 (80%)
-For those who want to say Donnan's last 4 years were better than richt's, that's not true just right off the bat looking at win percentage.
-Richt has also faced tougher schedules than Donnan.
****For those who want to use the retarded argument that Richt has an extra game to increase his win total, think about this:
Richt has had 1 "extra game" twice in 4 years due to winning the east, something donnan never did. He lost both CCGs (to teams that would play in the national title), so for the sake of this exercise he's essentially punished for being better than donnan. As far as regular season OOC goes, the most noteworthy teams donnan scheduled were wyoming and UCF. While Richt had to deal with boise and clemson twice. So the whole "richt had an extra game to help him out" argument actually accomplished the exact opposite of waht the donnan backers think.
So to sum up, using both coach's last 4 years as our measuring stick:
-Richt has a better winning percentage
-Has better big name wins
-Played a tougher schedule
-Lost to tougher teams
-Won the division twice which donnan was never able to do
-Finished the season ranked higher (twice, 4th and 9th) than donnan ever did.
This post was edited on 10/14/15 at 9:05 am
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Posted on 10/14/15 at 8:53 am to WG_Dawg
I think the SEC changed right about the time Donna left. UT slipped and Spurrier left, then the west began their ascent with Lsu, auburn, then Bama getting really good.
Truth is, we need the push and buy in created by a new staff to get us where we want to go. Our program is stale.
Truth is, we need the push and buy in created by a new staff to get us where we want to go. Our program is stale.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 8:55 am to WG_Dawg
We were pretty much dominated by UF and UT in his era.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 8:59 am to lewis and herschel
quote:
we need the push and buy in created by a new staff to get us where we want to go. Our program is stale.
has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:00 am to Peter Buck
quote:
We were pretty much dominated by UF and UT in his era.
we very much were, but those UF/UT teams were overall better than the ones richt has faced. I'll give him that.
However, the SC/VU/AUs richt has faced have been much better as well.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:02 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
Donnan win percentage: 73% Richt win percentage: 74% Donnan relevant opponent win percentage: 268-205 (57%) Richt relevant opponent win percentage: 355-226 (61%) Win perc. of teams donnan lost to: 121-40 (75%) Win perc. of teams Richt lost to: 149-38 (80%)
Yep, pretty lousy state we are in right now, definitely regressing.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:06 am to JCdawg
JC, I realize now that was a poorly worded phrase so I edited. The middle category you quoted is the winning percentage of each coach's relevant opponents...not UGA's winning percentage against them.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:08 am to JCdawg
UTs NC team was stacked with ATLs top talent. Like, UT came in and took over ATL...
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:10 am to Peter Buck
quote:
UTs NC team was stacked with ATLs top talent. Like, UT came in and took over ATL...
they very much were. But they were no more stacked than 11 LSU or 12 bama.
As far at the atl thing...donnan was a solid recruiter but he sure did let some of the best in state leave (and this was a time when there werne't nearly as many top notch schools bordering the state as there are now).
This post was edited on 10/14/15 at 9:11 am
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:11 am to WG_Dawg
Since that 2007 season Mark Richt has been down right abysmal and mediocre at best considering the resources he has available at UGA. Since 2007, we are 68-31, which amounts to a .687 winning percentage. That basically means that his teams have averaged about a 9-4 record every season, which is pretty good if your Maryland or Iowa. Over that same time span, he is now 14-22 against top 25 ranked teams (compared to a 24-13 record before 2008), with an average margin of defeat of about 13 points in those games. Even more frustrating is his 4-13 record against top 10 teams, with an average margin of defeat of 17 points in those games. Georgia has also lost to an unranked opponent 9 times since 2007, and has lost at least one game by over 15 points each of these seasons. To make matters even worse, of the 31 games that Richt has lost, Georgia was favored in 21 of them. The numbers don’t lie people. Based solely off of his performance over the past 8 seasons, I honestly don’t even think Vanderbilt would hire him.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:12 am to HinesvilleThrill
quote:
I honestly don’t even think Vanderbilt would hire him.
and that's why nobody will take you seriously
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:14 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
and that's why nobody will take Georgia seriously
FIFY
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:15 am to HinesvilleThrill
quote:
Based solely off of his performance over the past 8 seasons, I honestly don’t even think Vanderbilt would hire him.
Not Vanderbilt, but one of my friends who went to Virginia offered to pay Richt's moving expenses if we'd let them have him.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:17 am to Crowknowsbest
We'd need more than that. They also gave us Lambert.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:18 am to Crowknowsbest
quote:
one of my friends who went to Virginia offered to pay Richt's moving expenses if we'd let them have him.
There are probably only about 15ish teams in teh country that wouldn't take Richt.
But nah, hinesville said vandy wouldn't take him.
eta: it's funny that the last few days people were making all these cases how donnan's last 4 years were better than richt's, now that that is proven to be completley false the argument has morphed into which schools would or wouldnt' take richt if given the chance.
This post was edited on 10/14/15 at 9:20 am
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:19 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
JC, I realize now that was a poorly worded phrase so I edited. The middle category you quoted is the winning percentage of each coach's relevant opponents...not UGA's winning percentage against them.
Listen, I agree with you. Donnan doesn't even deserve to stand on the same podium as Mark Richt. Mark won a national championship as an offensive coordinator at Florida State, numerous ACC titles, two SEC titles, and 6 SEC East titles here at Georgia.
The problem I have right now, and have had the better part of 5 years now are the same problems just about everybody else has. Head scratching losses in a very weak division, and a grand amount of underachieving. I'm not going to beat a dead horse anymore.
The reality of the situation is, our administration thought Mark and staff had a good year last year, at least one that warranted a pay raise for Mark and his Staff. Granted, more money needed to be spent to keep pace, completely understand.
My problem is that for Georgia football, last year was an absolute epic failure. The only good teams we beat were Clemson and Missouri, and we beat Clemson before Watson had established himself as a starter. We lost to a bad South Carolina team, bad Florida team, and a pretty good tech team at home. If we were good enough to go on the road and crush Mizzou 34-0 without Gurley, then turn around and go to Arkansas and be up 38-6 at halftime, we had no business losing to South Carolina or Florida.
Mark has made numerous changes on the staff in the past two years, with Jacob Eason and another top ten class on the way, Mark will get another two years to either put up or shut up. The seat under his arse should be warming up right now.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:20 am to JCdawg
quote:
The problem I have right now,
yeah everyone who is a UGA fan has the same ones.
That's not what this is about...this was simply to refute the point that donnan had a better last 4 years than richt. Nothing more or less.
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:24 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
That's not what this is about...this was simply to refute the point that donnan had a better last 4 years than richt. Nothing more or less.
This is exactly what its about. Why the hell else would anybody bring up Jim Donnan anyways? Obviously because the last four or five years of Richt's tenure here at Georgia are very similar to Donnan's five years at Georgia.
Your own data proves that very point, and nothing else.
This post was edited on 10/14/15 at 9:25 am
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:26 am to WG_Dawg
List the SEC programs you think would hire Richt if their HC got bit on the neck by a brown recluse spider this morning
Posted on 10/14/15 at 9:29 am to Chef Leppard
Spoiler: theres only 4 correct answers. And all of them are Vandy
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