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re: Tales from Jury Duty . . .

Posted on 3/5/16 at 2:46 pm to
Posted by Jefferson Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
31961 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 2:46 pm to
quote:

It is also the part of the case where the attorney can develop a rapport with the jury which is important in the overall context of the trial and truly effective attorneys use voir dire not only to ask questions for the purpose of selecting jurors but also to actually educate the jurors about their case and sell the case to them by the manner in which the questions are asked.

I definitely picked up on this. Both defense and prosecution were selling us vacuum cleaners from the get go.

The creepiest part is sitting there at the end in silence while you and your team look us over and pass that piece of paper back and forth while pointing at us and whispering as you pick your prized cows out of the herd.
Posted by Cheese Grits
Wherever I lay my hat is my home
Member since Apr 2012
54628 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 2:53 pm to
Sooner or later we all get summoned.

Trying to get out of it in front of a judge may not work like you think it does. Judges are pretty wise to most things and you may get hammered for trying their patience.
Posted by reservoir_dawg
Member since Nov 2012
280 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 3:59 pm to
quote:

Jury duty is a hassle, and there's a lot to criticize about the system, but making someone else do it instead of you is basically the same thing as somebody that doesn't want to work collecting "welfare" stolen from the ones that do.


That's not a bad analogy, but I like to analogize jury service to voting. In an election, both sides argue why you should choose them, then we all vote, and a winner is elected.

In a trial, both sides argue why you should choose them, then the jury votes, and a winner is elected.

The most aggravating folks are those that are able to vote, but simply don't and then complain about the outcome. That's how I view folks that try their hardest to get off a jury. They are typically also the ones that will tell you how bad the system is and how juries get it wrong all the time, etc. Just like those who don't vote often complain about their representation.

Race/sex/age are absolutely considered during jury selection. There are jurisdictions where if I have an African American client, I'm going to win 99% of the time. There are jurisdictions where if I have an African American client, I'm going to lose 99% of the time. There are jurisdictions where if I have a White client, I'm going to win 99% of the time and vice versa. Those numbers are certainly exaggerated a little for effect, but the point remains the same. People respond more positively to others that they perceive to be like them. The one exception to that rule is women. Women are super tough on other women. If you have a woman as a client and an all woman jury, your client's probably in trouble.

There is such a thing as a Batson challenge, which is sometimes made if either attorney thinks the other struck somebody just for race/gender/nationality reasons. After the preemptory strikes are made, you'll hear a judge ask if either of the attorneys has any motions. If one of them says yes and they talk with the Judge in private, the attorney that said yes is arguing to the Judge that the other attorney struck somebody solely for one of the above grounds. If the Judge comes back out and nothing happens other than the case moves forward, then the Judge overruled it. If the Judge comes back out and asks that person to be reseated in the Jury, then the Judge agreed with the challenge. A Batson challenge is hard to win though.

I also don't necessarily agree with the idea that I'm only looking for people with open minds who will consider the case. My job is to win for my client. I'm looking for those persons that most closely align themselves with attributes that will help him/her/it in the presentation of the case. If you don't fall into that category, I don't care how open your mind is. I'm not going to overcome someone's long-held, core belief on an issue.
Posted by Litigator
Hog Jaw, Arkansas
Member since Oct 2013
7535 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 4:21 pm to
quote:

The creepiest part is sitting there at the end in silence while you and your team look us over and pass that piece of paper back and forth while pointing at us and whispering as you pick your prized cows out of the herd.


Early on we used to announce our challenges in the presence of the jury. The problem with this method is that we might use a jury panel for six months or so and if you had the opportunity to select that person at a later trial you never knew whether that person might hold it against you since you had previously struck them. I tell jurors during voir dire, and it is true, that just because they are not selected for a trial is not a slight to them as we may feel they are not right for that particular case (and of course we can be wrong about that). But you never know.

Now, in federal court and in some state courts including our local ones, court staff plays "white noise" during bench conferences when the attorneys and judge are speaking about issues including challenges to jurors so the discussion cannot be heard by the jury. Beware the lip-readers though.

Technology has made so many aspects of the trial process infinitely better.

Reservoir Dawg made a good point about attorneys knowing a lot about the prospective jurors prior to the time that they are even questioned by counsel. In cases where a lot of money is at stake it is not uncommon to employ a team of professionals to aid in selecting the "right" juror.
Posted by nuwaydawg
Member since Nov 2007
1921 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 6:27 pm to
I have been "in the box" three times.

The first case involved a Delta Airlines employee who was trying to reduce his child support payments. His lawyer made the case that these payments were initially based on his salary which included overtime. His income had decreased substantially since then and he wanted a reduction.

An aside, his ex hired Westmoreland out of Macon and they proceeded to tear his a-hole apart.

3 DUI's. No licence. Paying his girlfriend to drive him to work. His bankruptcy filing when he couldn't make the payments on his girlfriends trailer.

I learned from an alpha that stated that he really didn't have time for this stupid shite. He spoke up and called for a vote.
Posted by Litigator
Hog Jaw, Arkansas
Member since Oct 2013
7535 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 7:05 pm to
That is interesting that a jury would decide the issue of child support payments as in a number of places such family law type issues (custody, visitation, etc.) would be decided by a judge. But in my view it is a good thing to at least have the option to have juries decide as many issues as possible. That way you don't have to try your case to a rogue judge unsympathetic to your particular case.

One of my favorite parts in the movie Deliverance was the discussion about the prospect of a jury trial, emphasizing the importance of who might actually sit on the jury:

Lewis: Not now. Well, let's get our heads together. (To vengeful Bobby) Come on now, let's not do anything foolish. Does anybody know anything about the law?

Drew: Look, I-I was on jury duty once. It wasn't a murder trial.

Lewis: A murder trial? Well, I don't know the technical word for it, Drew, but I know this. You take this man down out of the mountains and turn him over to the Sheriff, there's gonna be a trial all right, a trial by jury.

Drew: So what?

Lewis: We killed a man, Drew. Shot him in the back - a mountain man, a cracker. It gives us somethin' to consider.

Drew: All right, consider it, we're listenin'.

Lewis: shite, all these people are related. I'd be god-damned if I'm gonna come back up here and stand trial with this man's aunt and his uncle, maybe his momma and his daddy sittin' in the jury box. What do you think, Bobby? (Bobby rushes at the corpse, but is restrained) How about you, Ed?

Ed: I don't know. I really don't know.
Posted by AlaCowboy
North Alabama
Member since Dec 2011
6942 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 9:09 pm to
I was selected by a team of attorneys prepping for a civil trial (death involved) where they would be asking for big money. 40 people on 2 panels heard arguments from attorneys for plaintiff and defendant. We then deliberated and voted for or against, then came to agreement on an award. Was very interesting.
Got paid $175 cash for a days work.
Posted by Jefferson Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
31961 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 10:56 pm to
quote:

I also don't necessarily agree with the idea that I'm only looking for people with open minds who will consider the case. My job is to win for my client.

That raised a red flag for me too. Open mind is code for empty mind to me. A lemming.

I hope I don't ever need a lawyer, and I doubt I could afford your services if i did, but give me the lawyer picking rooks, bishops, and kings/queens over the one picking pawns.

Posted by Jefferson Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
31961 posts
Posted on 3/5/16 at 11:19 pm to
quote:

Tales from Jury Duty . . .

-the judge making six figures off your stolen taxes wears some kind of weird ceremonial mideivil times robed deity costume. Check
-this judge is seated at a desk built 6 feet taller than anything else in the room. To further promote the illusion of omnipotence. Check
-the smell of halitosis and stale farts. Check.
Posted by Broncothor
Member since Jul 2014
3050 posts
Posted on 3/6/16 at 6:11 am to
Some silly answers in this thread. One George Carlin ripoff. One guy saying you should not try to avoid duty because you may need a good jury yourself one day. Like there is some kind of correlation or maybe jury karma? Has anyone ever gotten in trouble for lying to avoid jury duty? I have never been called but would probably just give honest answers and serve my responsibilities if chosen.
Posted by reservoir_dawg
Member since Nov 2012
280 posts
Posted on 3/6/16 at 8:17 am to
quote:

Some silly answers in this thread. One George Carlin ripoff. One guy saying you should not try to avoid duty because you may need a good jury yourself one day. Like there is some kind of correlation or maybe jury karma? Has anyone ever gotten in trouble for lying to avoid jury duty? I have never been called but would probably just give honest answers and serve my responsibilities if chosen.


I never suggested correlation or Karma. I'm not sure why you think it's silly to recognize that if you ever need a jury for whatever reason, you will want the most qualified one possible for the case.

Further, try using google. Type "juror perjury." See all the folks getting charged, realize that most instances where it happens doesn't make google, and start to understand why I said what I did. Judges don't like people who mess with the process or those who lie to them.
Posted by Jefferson Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
31961 posts
Posted on 3/6/16 at 10:04 am to
quote:

One guy saying you should not try to avoid duty because you may need a good jury yourself one day. Like there is some kind of correlation or maybe jury karma? Has anyone ever gotten in trouble for lying to avoid jury duty? I have never been called

Well, when you eventually get called one day, have a look around the room. I guarantee you that the crowd in there will not resemble your own circle of friends and people you surround yourself with every day. You may even find yourself frightened by the idea of some of the people in there being in charge of deciding your fate if God forbid you ever ended up on trial before them. And you might hope that more responsible people would take jury duty seriously. Also, which one is a George Carlin ripoff?
Posted by VADawg
Wherever
Member since Nov 2011
44807 posts
Posted on 3/6/16 at 10:49 am to
My mother told me a story about how she was selected for jury duty about 20 years ago in Savannah when we used to live there. She got called for a DUI case for a teenage black kid. Judge was reading off the charges and read the kid's BAC, and he got up and yelled "That's bullshite, I was drunker than that!"

Made the jury's job pretty easy.
Posted by Broncothor
Member since Jul 2014
3050 posts
Posted on 3/6/16 at 8:44 pm to
Personally I think juries should have qualifiers but someone would claim discrimination. For a robbery anyone should be callable. For tax fraud a financial background would be required. Etc. it would be nice to see lawyers win based on facts and evidence rather than showmanship and emotions. Razzle Dazzle. And the Summary verdict is much abused. A single judge deciding a case cannot get a trail. It's good to weed out frivolous cases with no true claim but is abused to throw out cases with merit.

"I can tell a guilty person just by looking at him" is an old George Carlin joke.
Posted by Cobb Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
9804 posts
Posted on 3/9/16 at 8:27 am to
If you're not smart enough to get off of jury duty........
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
59747 posts
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:12 am to
I was called for a child molestation case in Paulding. It was a 45 y/o dude who was accused of repeatedly having relations with a 15 y/o girl who was the daughter of a friend of the family that was letting dude stay with them while he was down on his luck.

The counsel for the defense asked me if I could listen to the evidence and rule impartially. I told him that given the circumstances, particularly the age difference and the number of times the assaults occurred, there's no way in hell that I could be impartial about the allegations and shame on anyone who could.

I was dismissed.
Posted by Jefferson Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
31961 posts
Posted on 3/9/16 at 10:37 am to
quote:

I told him that given the circumstances, particularly the age difference and the number of times the assaults occurred, there's no way in hell that I could be impartial about the allegations and shame on anyone who could.

So, basically, you told everyone in the room that you've already made up your mind about the case. In other words..... that you don't believe in justice or a fair trial or innocent-until-proven-guilty and all that stuff". And shame on anyone that does, you even say.

Congrats on being a proud commie, i guess.
This post was edited on 3/9/16 at 10:39 am
Posted by VoxDawg
Glory, Glory
Member since Sep 2012
59747 posts
Posted on 3/9/16 at 11:17 am to
You don't accidently rape a fifteen year old girl half a dozen times over six months.

Hell, maybe you do.
Posted by Jefferson Dawg
Member since Sep 2012
31961 posts
Posted on 3/9/16 at 12:25 pm to
quote:

You don't accidently rape a fifteen year old girl half a dozen times over six months.

Hell, maybe you do.

So, basically, what you're saying is you don't believe men have any rights if accused of a crime by a woman. They're automatically guilty.

And that if anyone disagrees with you on this then they might be a rapist too.

Yep. Glad you were excused from jury duty. You shouldn't be allowed to vote either. There should be a mandatory United States history and Civics test where you need at least a D- in order to be allowed to vote.

USA! USA! USA!
Posted by bitemetechfans
SUGAR HILL ,GA
Member since Sep 2012
337 posts
Posted on 3/9/16 at 12:33 pm to
just in any way shape or form let the lawyers know you believe in jury nullification. You will be down the road.
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