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Why Sumlin Will Never Win Big in the SEC
Posted on 10/18/17 at 5:51 am
Posted on 10/18/17 at 5:51 am
There is one very large reason I am so down on Sumlin, and it has been reinforced more and more over the years. Sumlin still hasn't learned from his mistakes in recruiting. His recruiting strategy is simply terrible for the league, and it continues to be
Recruiting classes have been decent enough, so overall talent is not the issue. It's the distribution of stars at fault. Not enough elite talent at DL, LB, and CB with basically all of the talent being skill position players on the offensive side of the ball, and not even at the most important position OL
He recruits WR's and Safeties pretty well. RB, and QB are up and down. The DT recruiting has improved, which is one of the main reasons the defense has begun to improve. The DE recruiting is completely pathetic, but worst of all is at CB. The misses at CB are simply inexcusable, and once again Sumlin has completely whiffed in a year with TONS of CB talent. And LB has been discussed until we are blue in the face - you are seeing the difference that strong front seven play makes in this league. But why did it take so long to figure out? And the depth here is terrible - injuries would destroy the defense.
Defense first. All the time. If you recruit an athlete, they should be tried in the secondary first. Not another freaking WR. It is all about the lines, and the defensive depth
But not with Sumlin - with him it is all about the WR's, and QB's. Who are the NFL draft picks for A&M? What do they play? Safeties, and WR's. And let's look at this recruiting class - more of the same. Misses all over at LB, and CB. We'll see what happens at DL - Ossai is probably going to Texas, which is when the pitchforks come out on TexAgs. But seriously, where are the OTHER DE's?
Even more freaking WR's, and now he isn't even getting elite talent there. He's focused on guys like Waddle, when he should be concentrating on guys like Green who wanted to be Aggies until we IGNORED them. The depth issues on defense are STILL not getting addressed with elite talent. I cannot understand how Sumlin is either so blind, or incapable of getting elite defensive talent. That is why I want someone like Durkin who understands this.
Sumlin will never be better than middle of the road in the SEC West because of this, and worst of all I see no sign he actually understands
Recruiting classes have been decent enough, so overall talent is not the issue. It's the distribution of stars at fault. Not enough elite talent at DL, LB, and CB with basically all of the talent being skill position players on the offensive side of the ball, and not even at the most important position OL
He recruits WR's and Safeties pretty well. RB, and QB are up and down. The DT recruiting has improved, which is one of the main reasons the defense has begun to improve. The DE recruiting is completely pathetic, but worst of all is at CB. The misses at CB are simply inexcusable, and once again Sumlin has completely whiffed in a year with TONS of CB talent. And LB has been discussed until we are blue in the face - you are seeing the difference that strong front seven play makes in this league. But why did it take so long to figure out? And the depth here is terrible - injuries would destroy the defense.
Defense first. All the time. If you recruit an athlete, they should be tried in the secondary first. Not another freaking WR. It is all about the lines, and the defensive depth
But not with Sumlin - with him it is all about the WR's, and QB's. Who are the NFL draft picks for A&M? What do they play? Safeties, and WR's. And let's look at this recruiting class - more of the same. Misses all over at LB, and CB. We'll see what happens at DL - Ossai is probably going to Texas, which is when the pitchforks come out on TexAgs. But seriously, where are the OTHER DE's?
Even more freaking WR's, and now he isn't even getting elite talent there. He's focused on guys like Waddle, when he should be concentrating on guys like Green who wanted to be Aggies until we IGNORED them. The depth issues on defense are STILL not getting addressed with elite talent. I cannot understand how Sumlin is either so blind, or incapable of getting elite defensive talent. That is why I want someone like Durkin who understands this.
Sumlin will never be better than middle of the road in the SEC West because of this, and worst of all I see no sign he actually understands
This post was edited on 10/18/17 at 6:05 am
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Posted on 10/18/17 at 7:21 am to ColoradoAg
With Sumlin there has been a downward trend on the LOS. Best OL and DL we have had since Sumlin arrived were Sherman’s guys. I will admit our DL this year is the best since 2012 . To your point, a subpar OL and DL in this league is an absolute killer. Bama, LSU, Auburn, get much better talent on both sides of the LOS than we do.
My real issue with Sumlin has been the handling of personnel. When your program has QBs transfer out like we did, highly rated QB recruits reverse their decisions, etc... something ain’t right. When you allow a 17 year old undersized primal donna like Kyler Murray to dictate terms and conditions to your program you got big problems behind the scenes. A fan base with a big % of fans that thinks not landing Murray would have been the end of the world..a disaster for recruiting, etc... certainly doesn’t help.
The question now is has Sumlin learned his lessons? I personally think he has but I don’t think a program like Texas A&M should hire coaches that have to learn how to recruit, manage people, etc... on the job. Effectively we have been paying him to learn how to run a large program.
If he has truly learned how to do the job then I would be okay with him staying for another year. We can’t keep cycling through coaches.
My real issue with Sumlin has been the handling of personnel. When your program has QBs transfer out like we did, highly rated QB recruits reverse their decisions, etc... something ain’t right. When you allow a 17 year old undersized primal donna like Kyler Murray to dictate terms and conditions to your program you got big problems behind the scenes. A fan base with a big % of fans that thinks not landing Murray would have been the end of the world..a disaster for recruiting, etc... certainly doesn’t help.
The question now is has Sumlin learned his lessons? I personally think he has but I don’t think a program like Texas A&M should hire coaches that have to learn how to recruit, manage people, etc... on the job. Effectively we have been paying him to learn how to run a large program.
If he has truly learned how to do the job then I would be okay with him staying for another year. We can’t keep cycling through coaches.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 7:28 am to ColoradoAg
He will be 2nd in the SEC West this year.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 8:01 am to AggieDub14
Lol lets back our way into a contract extension so he can got on another 5 year bender.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 8:12 am to Nguyening
11-2 inc
Posted on 10/18/17 at 9:55 am to ColoradoAg
I don’t really follow recruiting much anymore but what little I do keep up with I have to agree with your analysis. I’ll see the headline “yessir!!! A&M lands another 4 star receiver for the ___ class!!” And think to myself, damn another one? Don’t we need some o line or cb or something else? And yet everybody talks about how thin our reviving group is outside of Kirk, what happened to all those recruits over the years and why haven’t they panned out?
We’ve had good recruiting class numbers, but national rankings just look at stars, not how spread out the talent is, and like you said we’ve been lacking in a lot of defense positions.
We’ve had good recruiting class numbers, but national rankings just look at stars, not how spread out the talent is, and like you said we’ve been lacking in a lot of defense positions.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 10:02 am to Texas Gentleman
quote:
We’ve had good recruiting class numbers
We have. I am obsessed with the LOS on both DL and OL. I constantly look at who we are getting year after year and am disappointed. Not sure how we rank among schools just in the State of Texas when it comes to the DL recruiting but my guess is we are a distant 3rd at best. This is an ongoing issue that needs to be corrected.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:14 am to Texas Gentleman
The WR recruiting really irks me. outside of reynolds, who has been a good evaluation by the staff instead of just a highly ranked player?
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:25 am to Uncle Gunnysack
So do we want good evals or highly ranked players? Both right? Then the answer would be Kirk.
Was Malcome Kennedy this staff? I don't recall. That would be solid evals since I don't recall him being highly rated.
While RSJ didn't even live up to the hype, he was a solid #3 WR with Reynolds & Kirk leading the way.
You only have one ball to go around.
There is plenty to be mad about. I don't think WRs are one. Now maybe WR coaching. I could see that.
Was Malcome Kennedy this staff? I don't recall. That would be solid evals since I don't recall him being highly rated.
While RSJ didn't even live up to the hype, he was a solid #3 WR with Reynolds & Kirk leading the way.
You only have one ball to go around.
There is plenty to be mad about. I don't think WRs are one. Now maybe WR coaching. I could see that.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 11:40 am to Farmer1906
quote:
Was Malcome Kennedy this staff?
Malcome Kennedy was a redshirt sophomore during Sumlin's first season. He was a 2010 class recruit.
Here are the receivers (not including TEs) signed under this staff.
2012 (1/2 panned out)
-Thomas Johnson: Disappeared (literally) after the 10th game. Tragic story overall
-Derel Walker (JC): Emerged the 2nd half of his senior season
2013 (1/6 panned out)
-Ricky Seals-Jones: Peaked his RS-Freshman year. Overall bust
-Sebastian Larue: Transferred to Washington State and quit
-Laquivionte Gonzales: Transferred to Kansas and was kicked off team
-JaQuay Savage: Transferred to Louisville and was kicked off team
-Kyrion Parker: Transferred to D2
-Jeremy Tabuyo: Solid contributor
2014 (2/4 panned out)
-Speedy Noil: Epic failure
-Frank Iheanacho: Left team after 2 seasons
-Josh Reynolds: One of the best WR A&M has had in a very long time
-Jamal Jeffery: Converted to DB his SR year
2015 (2/3 panned out)
-Christian Kirk: Only real productive receiver on current roster
-Kemah Siverand: Currently at CB
-Damion Ratley: Improved after 2 seasons
2016 (TBD, but all four have been passed by true freshmen)
Quartney Davis
Clyde Chriss
Kendrick Rogers
Moses Reynolds
2017 (TBD)
Jhamon Ausbon
Hezekiah Jones
Roshauud Paul
Cameron Buckley
This post was edited on 10/18/17 at 11:48 am
Posted on 10/18/17 at 1:38 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
2013 (1/6 panned out)
-Ricky Seals-Jones: Peaked his RS-Freshman year. Overall bust
-Jeremy Tabuyo: Solid contributor
This is exactly what I mean when I say you twist things to fit your narrative.
Calling RSJ (123 receptions, 1,442 yards, 10TDs) a bust while calling Tabuyo (35 receptions, 454 yards, 5TDs) a solid contributor and the only WR from that class that panned out is a joke.
Did RSJ live up to the hype of being the next Mike Evans? No. He didn't. He didn't have the same hands or route running ability. But the guy was a solid #3 WR when healthy his entire time at A&M.
This post was edited on 10/18/17 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 10/18/17 at 2:03 pm to Dr RC
you pointing out that a 5 star recruit turned into a #3 option kind of proves his point
Posted on 10/18/17 at 2:06 pm to Tridentds
quote:
Bama, LSU, Auburn, get much better talent on both sides of the LOS than we do.
this drives me insane.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 2:14 pm to Dr RC
Stats in Ricky Seals-Jones' final season:
Seals-Jones: 26 catches for 333 yards and 1 TD
Tabuyo: 14 catches for 229 yards
Seals-Jones: 26 catches for 333 yards and 1 TD
Tabuyo: 14 catches for 229 yards
Posted on 10/18/17 at 2:27 pm to Dr RC
quote:
But the guy was a solid #3 WR when healthy his entire time at A&M.
Shocking that he didn't make it in the NFL. Guess they wanted players that actually catch balls that hit them in the hands.
Not sure being a #3 WR is a hands down positive. It's more like ... so what.
Posted on 10/18/17 at 2:52 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
quote:
Stats in Ricky Seals-Jones' final season:
Seals-Jones: 26 catches for 333 yards and 1 TD
Tabuyo: 14 catches for 229 yards
and?
What point are you trying to prove when giving stats that show RSJ did more in his worst full year than Tabuyo in his best full year? Those stats also don't show how good RSJ was at blocking which Tabuyo did very little of.
He wasn't a bust. He didn't live up to the hype and he should have been willing to move to TE when the coaches suggested it to him but he still contributed way more than Tabuyo over his time at A&M.
This post was edited on 10/18/17 at 3:00 pm
Posted on 10/18/17 at 2:56 pm to Tridentds
quote:
Not sure being a #3 WR is a hands down positive. It's more like ... so what.
I don't think it's an awful thing to end up behind guys like Reynolds and Kirk.
Either way, that doesn't change that CG is flat wrong to say a guy who barely played until he was a senior was a solid contributor while calling a dude who is 9th all time in receptions for A&M a bust.
This post was edited on 10/18/17 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 10/18/17 at 4:00 pm to Uncle Gunnysack
quote:
you pointing out that a 5 star recruit turned into a #3 option kind of proves his point
It really doesn't.
The guy didn't become Mike Evans but he was far from a bust. You just flat out can't say a guy who is #9 all time in receptions at A&M is a bust. Especially when he was a #3 WR b/c he ended up being behind Kirk and Reynolds who are both top 5 Aggie WRs all time. Never mind that Speedy was also there to soak up receptions (46, 21, 21) as well.
2014
2015
2016
On top of that, he lists Kirk as the only productive WR on A&M's roster right now while ignoring Ratley (a guy who was a walk on at Blinn but let's ignore that b/c it hurts the Sumlin doesn't develop players narrative) has already passed Tabuyo's most productive year and that Ausbon has 22 receptions and a TD all with a true freshman QB who has major accuracy and read progression issues.
This post was edited on 10/18/17 at 4:18 pm
Posted on 10/18/17 at 4:16 pm to Dr RC
As you mentioned earlier, this is the CGSC way.
It's mind-boggling that he shows the stats where RSJ was clearly better, but a "bust", and Tabuyo with lesser stats was a "solid contributor".
It's mind-boggling that he shows the stats where RSJ was clearly better, but a "bust", and Tabuyo with lesser stats was a "solid contributor".
Posted on 10/18/17 at 5:17 pm to finestfirst79
A proper comparison to Ricky Seals-Jones would be Martellus Bennett.
Similar size, similar build, similar skillset.
Ricky Seals-Jones: 123 catches for 1442 yards and 10 TD (3 catches, 84 yards, and 1 of those TDs was during a game in which he was out for the season)
His catch totals went 49, then 45, then 23.
Martellus Bennett: 105 catches for 1246 yards and 10 TD. His catch totals went 18, then 38, then 49
Martellus Bennett's performance and numbers improved year after year while Seals-Jones' numbers got worse year after year. Not only that, but Bennett's numbers came in what was basically an OPTION OFFENSE (Franchione 2005-2007)
As for Damien Ratley, take away the long catch and run against ULL and his numbers are downright pathetic this season.
Similar size, similar build, similar skillset.
Ricky Seals-Jones: 123 catches for 1442 yards and 10 TD (3 catches, 84 yards, and 1 of those TDs was during a game in which he was out for the season)
His catch totals went 49, then 45, then 23.
Martellus Bennett: 105 catches for 1246 yards and 10 TD. His catch totals went 18, then 38, then 49
Martellus Bennett's performance and numbers improved year after year while Seals-Jones' numbers got worse year after year. Not only that, but Bennett's numbers came in what was basically an OPTION OFFENSE (Franchione 2005-2007)
As for Damien Ratley, take away the long catch and run against ULL and his numbers are downright pathetic this season.
This post was edited on 10/18/17 at 5:19 pm
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