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re: The 7th/8th best SEC team is a touchdown underdog vs. the 4th/5th best ACC team
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:17 am to BayouBengals03
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:17 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
I agree about the coaches. I've been on that train for as while now. The SEC has some very mediocre coaches.
At least in large part a product of Saban, I think. When one coach in a conference becomes dominant, the others either get run off (Miles, Richt, soon to be Sumlin, Bielema, Jones), give up (Spurrier) or leave for an easier place (Meyer). Any coach who stays becomes less successful because they lose recruits to the dominant program. Saban has been poaching top players from Louisiana the last few years, and I think that has contributed to LSU's decline. He's pretty much killed Auburn in-state, and can take just about anyone he wants from any other surrounding states. That naturally hurts the schools from those states.
Alabama is killing the rest of the SEC with Saban now just like they did with Bryant in the '70s.
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Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:19 am to BayouBengals03
quote:
Does this seem hard to believe to anyone else? Not that Virginia Tech is favored against Arkansas, but that the SEC has fallen off this much seemingly so quickly. It's hard to believe this scenario occurring 3-4 years ago.
Outside of Alabama, the SEC what garbage this year. Yes, it's very difficult to believe we fell this far, this fast. Maybe next year we can get it turned around and become dominant again.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:21 am to craigbiggio
After today's latest asswhipping, he will have a losing record after four years. His SEC record is 10-22. I don't give a frick about his dominance of Big 10 doormats that inflated his career record.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:22 am to Nuts4LSU
quote:
When one coach in a conference becomes dominant, the others either get run off (Miles, Richt, soon to be Sumlin, Bielema, Jones
I've just never agreed with this line of thinking. Obviously saban is about 100 miles ahead of anyone else in the league, but this whole mindset of "saban is so good that everyone else got run off" just isn't correct IMO. Richt was winning 10 games a year when saban entered the SEC, when saban left the SEC, and when saban returned to the SEC. Richt got fired because he'd been here 15 years and wasn't taking us to the next level and we hadn't won the conference in 10 years.
Yes, I realize the argument to that is going to be "well if it wasn't for saban richt may have won more" but that's not really the point. Unless you win the title, there's always going to be someone that got in your way. Our 02 title shot was lost because of zook. We had a great team in 05 but lost to 2 teams we shouldn't (neither of which were saban). In 07 we had a great team but lost to fulmer and spurrier. 2012 we lost directly because of/to saban, but richt didn't get fired after 2015 because of a game he lost 3 years prior.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:23 am to Nuts4LSU
I think it's safe to say that the SEC currently has the worst head coaches in the entire power 5.
ACC: Dabo, Jimbo, Fuente, Petrino, Fedora, etc.
Big10: Meyer, Dantonio, Franklin, Harbaugh, Fitzgerald, etc.
Big12: Stoops, Snyder, Gundy, Patterson, Herman, Holgorsen, etc.
Pac12: Petersen, Leach, Shaw, Whittingham, Graham, Taggart
SEC: Saban, Mullen, Bielema, Gus, Freeze, McElwain
ACC: Dabo, Jimbo, Fuente, Petrino, Fedora, etc.
Big10: Meyer, Dantonio, Franklin, Harbaugh, Fitzgerald, etc.
Big12: Stoops, Snyder, Gundy, Patterson, Herman, Holgorsen, etc.
Pac12: Petersen, Leach, Shaw, Whittingham, Graham, Taggart
SEC: Saban, Mullen, Bielema, Gus, Freeze, McElwain
This post was edited on 12/29/16 at 10:26 am
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:23 am to WG_Dawg
quote:Gus is #2 coach in the SEC right now. Gus finished last in the division just last year (6-6) and went to the B'ham Bowl and finished 2nd in the conference this year (8-4) going to the Sugar Bowl.
It aint mullen but Idk who it'd be. I guess bret, or hell maybe gus? Geez we really do have a pretty lackluster cast behind saban.
This post was edited on 12/29/16 at 10:26 am
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:26 am to cardboardboxer
quote:
Given how Arky recruits Bert actually overachieves.
Not biting
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:27 am to cardboardboxer
Very true. Put Bielema at LSU or Florida and he would kill it in the SEC.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:30 am to Nukeese
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Va Tech is, at worst, 3rd best. They'd beat Louisville and FSU imo
They lost to Syracuse and Georiga Tech, so no.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:34 am to TheCheshireHog
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I would expect VT to win by more than 7 tonight. They're facing the worst Arkansas defense in my lifetime and one that can't stop a mobile QB if they had 22 guys on the field. Evans should have a field day and hopefully lead to some changes on our defensive staff.
Yeah Evans is basically a poor man's Cam Newton and that scares me.
The only things i think in our favor are how we usually bounce back well from losses and Bielema has done well in bowl games, though VT is a better team by far than Texas or Kansas State were
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:34 am to craigbiggio
2nd best? He is 10-22 in SEC games. Not to mention losses to Rutgers, Toledo, Texas Tech.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:36 am to TigerintheNO
quote:
2nd best? He is 10-22 in SEC games. Not to mention losses to Rutgers, Toledo, Texas Tech.
so who is it? The only others in contention would be mullen, freeze, mcelwain, gus.
Mullen hasn't done anything without dak. Perpetually mediocre.
Freeze hasn't won without cheating.
Mcelwain wins but does it by beating up on an incredibly down division.
Gus has some high highs but is really nothing to write home about and has some embarrassing losses as well.
I guess if forced to choose I'd say Gus.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:37 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
richt didn't get fired after 2015 because of a game he lost 3 years prior.
But he got fired because of...
quote:
02 title shot was lost because of zook.
quote:and
great team in 05 but lost to 2 teams we shouldn't
quote:?
In 07 we had a great team but lost to fulmer and spurrier.
Wasn't Georgia riding high in 2015 until 38-10 between the hedges?
I'm not saying Saban was the only reason Richt or Miles (or the other ones currently on the brink) got run off, but the inability to come through with that great championship year at least some of the time will kill a coach's career, even an otherwise successful one. With Saban around, that year is awfully hard to find.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:40 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
so who is it? The only others in contention would be mullen, freeze, mcelwain, gus.
all of the above have done better than Bret, but Gus would be #2, he has an SEC title.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:41 am to Nuts4LSU
quote:
But he got fired because of...
quote:
02 title shot was lost because of zook.
quote:
great team in 05 but lost to 2 teams we shouldn't
and
quote:
In 07 we had a great team but lost to fulmer and spurrier.
Are you asking if he got fired because of 10 years of losses we shoudln't have, as opposed to 1 single game we lost against a national champion? Yeah, that is what I'm saying.
quote:
Wasn't Georgia riding high in 2015 until 38-10 between the hedges?
riding high? We beat 2 cupcakes, Vanderbilt, and South Carolina. Nobody of note. And in case you missed it, we also lost to butch and lost by 24 to UF that year. Did mcelwain run richt off too?
quote:
m not saying Saban was the only reason Richt or Miles (or the other ones currently on the brink) got run off, but the inability to come through with that great championship year at least some of the time will kill a coach's career, even an otherwise successful one. With Saban around, that year is awfully hard to find.
I agree with the broad, overall point that teams would almost surely have more success overall than they have if saban weren't here. I mean that's common sense. But I don't think that "saban ran people off" is accurate. Once again, Richt was here 15 years...if saban ran him off that was the slowest running off ever.
Heck look at all the years since our last SECC that had absolutley nothing to do wiht saban:
06- lost 4 games
07- lost to two inferior teams
08- lost 3 games (wouldn't have gone to SECCG even if we beat bama since UF went undefeated)
09- lost 5 games
10- had a losing record
11- lost 4 games, trounced in SECCG
12- legit great season, lost to alabama for title shot
13- lost 5 games, largely due to injuries
14- lost 3 games
15- lost 3 games
Over that 10 year span, only once did saban directly hinder our chance at a title shot.
This post was edited on 12/29/16 at 10:44 am
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:44 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
Mullen hasn't done anything without dak. Perpetually mediocre.
Considering where he's coaching, he's done very well, with or without Dak. After his initial season when he went 5-7, he ran off six straight winning seasons until finishing 6-7 this year. By Mississippi State standards, that's very good. Jackie Sherrill never managed that kind of consistency while he was there, and he was a very successful coach at Pitt and multiple SWC championship coach at Texas A&M.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:46 am to TigerintheNO
quote:
2nd best? He is 10-22 in SEC games. Not to mention losses to Rutgers, Toledo, Texas Tech.
A) Arkansas vastly outrecruits all of those teams
B) He lost to Toledo with an experienced team that had several NFL players on it including a 3 year starter (5th year senior) at QB. It would be the equivalent of Mullen losing to USA with Dak. Texas Tech had one of the worst run defenses in the country. The coach who prides himself on physicality lost to them.
C) Arkansas had one of the worst run defenses of the past decade this season.
D) His record is vastly inferior to Houston Nutt's Arkansas record. His record is almost identical to Nutt's Ole Miss record. At least Nutt had a couple good seasons at OM.
Overachiever!
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:52 am to BayouBengals03
This delusional narrative and irrational sense of self importance is what causes most college football fans to loathe the schools in the SEC.
Congrats on the crazy.
Congrats on the crazy.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:56 am to WG_Dawg
quote:
I don't have a damn clue what to think of arkansas
If you ever figure this year's Arkansas team out let us know please. I've watched every game this year and I have no idea why we fluctuate so badly in how we play.
Posted on 12/29/16 at 10:59 am to WG_Dawg
Saban hasn't/isn't running coaches off. Hell, the Alabama game is only one (1) freaking game a year. Teams like UGA/USCe/UF only play Alabama every few years anyway.
If SEC teams only had one single loss to Alabama every year then that team would be ranked in the top 10 and in playoff contention. It's not Saban's fault that other SEC teams lose multiple games outside of Alabama.
It's not Saban/Alabama's fault that Les Miles had losses to Arkansas/OM/Wisky/AU/UF/NotreDame, or that Mark Richt had losses to USCe/UF/GaTech/UT/Mizzou or that Gus Malzan has had losses to MSU/aTm/UGA/LSU/Arky/OM/Clemson over the last few years.
If SEC teams only had one single loss to Alabama every year then that team would be ranked in the top 10 and in playoff contention. It's not Saban's fault that other SEC teams lose multiple games outside of Alabama.
It's not Saban/Alabama's fault that Les Miles had losses to Arkansas/OM/Wisky/AU/UF/NotreDame, or that Mark Richt had losses to USCe/UF/GaTech/UT/Mizzou or that Gus Malzan has had losses to MSU/aTm/UGA/LSU/Arky/OM/Clemson over the last few years.
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