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Short yardage question
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:13 am
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:13 am
Back when Spurrier was at Florida on short yardage situations like 3and 1. Lots of teams run the qb sneak with everyone in tight at the line of scrimmage. Spurrier would bring in 5 wr's and then run the sneak. It never got stopped. I wonder why no other coach runs the sneak out of a 5 wr set.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:27 am to jcljag
"what about 4 WRs"
-Dan Mullen
-Dan Mullen
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:27 am to jcljag
Because - With modern day SEC defenses, it's a usual thing to see 4 down linemen with 3 linebackers in the box. When an OC puts 5 WRs wide, you leave only 5 people maximum to block on the offensive line. No RB or FB to follow, only linemen. On defense, you can place a guy to cover every WR man-to-man, and still have 6 guys able to stop the run.
6 defenders > 5 blockers. It's a numbers game that doesn't usually work out in favor of the offense, especially if the defensive line or the LB corps is half decent/the offensive line is bad.
Of course, if it's the first time that you're running this play, it has a higher chance of success since the DC may not know what play is being run since 5 WR's usually indicates a passing play. There are a lot of plays that can be run with 5 wide. However, if the DC knows that a 5 WR QB sneak is a weapon that the OC uses, then all the DC has to do is drop his CB's and S's into zone or man coverage, set 2 LB's in zone coverage underneath (essentially 2 QB spies) and drop his 3 LB into a deeper zone coverage over the middle. If the DL gets any kind of push up front and blows the line up, the QB has nowhere to go.
You can get away with this type of play if your OL is great though, but most teams don't have 5 OL that can consistently block 6 people.
Also bear in mind that Spurrier had good QB's at UF, so DC's were scared of a short pass play and would commit less to stopping the run.
6 defenders > 5 blockers. It's a numbers game that doesn't usually work out in favor of the offense, especially if the defensive line or the LB corps is half decent/the offensive line is bad.
Of course, if it's the first time that you're running this play, it has a higher chance of success since the DC may not know what play is being run since 5 WR's usually indicates a passing play. There are a lot of plays that can be run with 5 wide. However, if the DC knows that a 5 WR QB sneak is a weapon that the OC uses, then all the DC has to do is drop his CB's and S's into zone or man coverage, set 2 LB's in zone coverage underneath (essentially 2 QB spies) and drop his 3 LB into a deeper zone coverage over the middle. If the DL gets any kind of push up front and blows the line up, the QB has nowhere to go.
You can get away with this type of play if your OL is great though, but most teams don't have 5 OL that can consistently block 6 people.
Also bear in mind that Spurrier had good QB's at UF, so DC's were scared of a short pass play and would commit less to stopping the run.
This post was edited on 9/22/17 at 10:29 am
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:31 am to RebelTheBear
Thanks Rebel. Very good answer
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:31 am to RebelTheBear
Zone blocking leaves backside DE unblocked as they dbl team DL playside, then going to 2nd level on LB's coming up. 5 on 5
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:31 am to RebelTheBear
dbl post
This post was edited on 9/22/17 at 10:32 am
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:36 am to dbuchanon
Very true.
However, if the DC is smart and doesn't shift his OLB outside the box, then even though the backside DE is unblocked, both DT, all 3 LB, and the strong side DE can still feasibly make the play.
Also remember that any pass-rush DE who is quick COULD come around and get the QB from behind, especially if the other DL and LB's are able to blow up the line and cause the QB to try and switch directions. Emphasis on COULD since the probability of this is low, but not completely impossible.
I enjoy questions like this so thanks for your point
However, if the DC is smart and doesn't shift his OLB outside the box, then even though the backside DE is unblocked, both DT, all 3 LB, and the strong side DE can still feasibly make the play.
Also remember that any pass-rush DE who is quick COULD come around and get the QB from behind, especially if the other DL and LB's are able to blow up the line and cause the QB to try and switch directions. Emphasis on COULD since the probability of this is low, but not completely impossible.
I enjoy questions like this so thanks for your point
This post was edited on 9/22/17 at 10:37 am
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:40 am to jcljag
Speak for your own team. We run the retarded 5 wide QB sneak from shotgun all the damn time. For the life of me I will never understand why going under center is not the obvious call. 3rd or 4th and inches, we line up in shotgun and QB draw or RB up gut.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:43 am to jcljag
As a non-'Xs and Os' expert I wish there were more threads like this, but of course 'peacocking' would eventually happen. Ha.
Thanks OP.
Thanks OP.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:45 am to RebelTheBear
quote:
Also remember that any pass-rush DE who is quick COULD come around and get the QB from behind, especially if the other DL and LB's are able to blow up the line and cause the QB to try and switch directions.
On a QB sneak from under center? I'm doubting many DEs are THAT fast. If it's a QB run from shotgun, sure. It also depends on field position. 1 yard to go on the goalline obviously tightens things up, so you can worry less about the 5 WR look. If it's 3rd or 4th and 1 in the middle of the field, a smart OC would have check options at the line for the QB. If they don't cover the outside, it becomes a quick screen or rub route.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:46 am to RebelTheBear
quote:
I enjoy questions like this so thanks for your point
Me too
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:47 am to jcljag
What amazes me is there are still many teams that can't run the qb under center in those situations.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:48 am to DoreonthePlains
See I was taking it from the perspective of the QB being in the shotgun, due to the fact that shotgun is how we at OM run 98% of our plays.
You're 100% correct about going from under center
Love your points about field position and check options too. This question is honestly very broad and has many answers. Oh and good luck to y'all against Bama this weekend, give 'em hell.
You're 100% correct about going from under center
Love your points about field position and check options too. This question is honestly very broad and has many answers. Oh and good luck to y'all against Bama this weekend, give 'em hell.
This post was edited on 9/22/17 at 10:50 am
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:48 am to TrueReb13
Personally I'd go 5 wide under Center giving the QB a RPO based on the leverage of the DB's.. if i had a stud WR ect look for a quick slant. But im just a reg Joe
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:49 am to RebelTheBear
putting 5 wide leaves a guy in the seam wide open usually if the LBers are creeping up. That's big play, pretty sure i saw OM use it with Evan Engram lining up both attached and in the slot.
This post was edited on 9/22/17 at 10:50 am
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:51 am to yatesdog38
This is true, Evan made a living off of these types of calls. Dude was hard to guard due to his size and speed, especially when matched up with undersized DB's and slow LB's.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:55 am to RebelTheBear
quote:
This question is honestly very broad and has many answers.
It SHOULD have many answers. The problem is that short yardage is one of those weird "blind spots" people in sports have. For coaches, if you fail to convert, the fans and media always crucify you. A coach that runs the ball between the tackles is called too predictable. A coach that tries a pass is weak or trying to be too cute. There are obviously bad play calls with 1 yard to gain, but the media and fans are not worried about good decisions. They want results, which isn't always fair. With that many players in such little space, especially in traditional "jumbo" sets, the slightest failure in blocking ruins a play.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:56 am to RebelTheBear
and then there is the legendary jump pass that can be run out of this formation too. the key for it to be successful is to have a smart QB and someone the defense has to respect that pulls off a LB and then it makes it easier for a big QB to sneak in or try and push the pile.
Watch bulldogs vs bulldogs and I guarantee you will see something similar on a short yardage situation. Dan usually runs it out of shotgun though cause then Fitz can use his momentum and big frame to push the pile or even jump over it. sometimes he'll get under center but go between the tackle and guard instead of the guard and center. There is usually someone in motion too.
Watch bulldogs vs bulldogs and I guarantee you will see something similar on a short yardage situation. Dan usually runs it out of shotgun though cause then Fitz can use his momentum and big frame to push the pile or even jump over it. sometimes he'll get under center but go between the tackle and guard instead of the guard and center. There is usually someone in motion too.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 10:58 am to jcljag
Im a huge fan of the wildcat in this situation. threaten all flanks of the OL. Sweep one way, QB up middle or backside kickout with a Guard with QB following.
Then there's the TE pop pass that Tebow made famous.
Then there's the TE pop pass that Tebow made famous.
Posted on 9/22/17 at 11:04 am to dbuchanon
Fake jump pass? Got more than 1 yard here...
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