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re: SEC basketball ranked by various criteria
Posted on 1/30/15 at 4:05 pm to I-59 Tiger
Posted on 1/30/15 at 4:05 pm to I-59 Tiger
quote:
This is not "apples to apples." If we are discussing Southeastern Conference it is imperative to recall that until 1975 only one team from a conference could participate in the NCAA tournament. In the 1960's and 1970's Vanderbilt and Tennessee had some outstanding teams but their second place finish precluded them from the tourney. Its highly likely that many of the Arkansas and Missouri teams that made the tournament through the 1974 season would have come in second behind Kentucky.
Yep, I feel like I have to say this everytime a thread like this comes up. Well put.
2
Posted on 1/30/15 at 4:14 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
Personally, I'm not a fan of Wooden, but the fact that he won so many championships suggests he is a pretty solid coach.
Never said he was a bad coach, just saying once Papa Sam got involved UCLA went from a .600 type team to a .950 type team. He was at UCLA for 15 years or so and suddenly his success goes through the roof when Sam got involved. Bill Walton once said he made more money playing for UCLA than he did in the pros.
Did you ever see the movie "Blue Chips" with Nick Nolte? I think it was based on Wooden and Sam but set in a more modern time. It was interesting Nick's team in the movie wore UCLA's colors. Remember, the NCAA had the evidence on Wooden but they used the excuse of too much time elapsing to punish him and he had already retired. I think it is the reason Southern Cal delayed the Reggie Bush thing for as long as they did. With UCLA as the example I think they thought they could let it drag on and get dropped too.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 4:21 pm to Tennessee Jed
quote:
This is not "apples to apples." If we are discussing Southeastern Conference it is imperative to recall that until 1975 only one team from a conference could participate in the NCAA tournament. In the 1960's and 1970's Vanderbilt and Tennessee had some outstanding teams but their second place finish precluded them from the tourney. Its highly likely that many of the Arkansas and Missouri teams that made the tournament through the 1974 season would have come in second behind Kentucky.
Well first of all, we only made 1 tournament before the 1974 season you speak of. So that argument doesn't really apply to us. 25 of our 26 appearances are post 1975 expansion.
Second of all, we had the same situation in our conference as you did in the SEC. You know of kansas, who is the Big 12 equivalent of Kentucky, but Oklahoma, Oklahoma state, and kansas state were also tough teams back then. So Mizzou had a lot of great teams that didn't make the dance as well. Case in point: our 71-72 and 72-73 teams both went 21-6, finished 2nd in conference, and didn't go to the dance. So that caveat is not unique to Vandy and Tennessee.
This post was edited on 1/30/15 at 4:32 pm
Posted on 1/30/15 at 4:44 pm to KCM0Tiger
quote:
You know of kansas, who is the Big 12 equivalent of Kentucky
UK owns KU and it is not even close
Posted on 1/30/15 at 4:45 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
UK owns KU and it is not even close
Yes I know this, and I love them for it. But kU owns the Big 12 which is my point. kU wins that league more often than not.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 4:54 pm to KCM0Tiger
quote:
But kU owns the Big 12 which is my point.
Yes, I understand this, but the bigger point is the gap between the best the Big 8 / Big 12 had to offer and the best the SEC had to offer. Viewed this way, UK is Tier #1, KU is Tier #2, and teams like OK State and Arkansas are Tier #3. Teams like Missouri and Alabama would be the next tier down.
If steady Arkansas, cyclical LSU, and modern Florida were suddenly to wind up in the Big 12 they would be second only to Kansas and probably ahead of schools like Kansas State and Missouri. Since AR and LSU have been down only probablt FL under Billy could give KU a run or displace them at the top.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 5:14 pm to TheDude321
quote:
The Big 8 and SWC were weaker than the SEC historically (which is one reason why neither the Big 8 nor SWC still exist). No way Arky or Mizzou have even a fraction of the conference titles/NCAA tourney appearances if they were in the SEC during that era. In fact, Arky had to step up their play quite a bit when they joined the stronger SEC in '92, and it paid off big for them--their new SEC opponents' strength helped challenge the Hogs to compete at a higher level and they immediately were able to finally use that drive to march through the NCAA tourney on to the title (ditto for their track program, which only had a couple of nattys in the mid-1980s before joining the SEC and being pushed to greatness).
Is this a serious post?
First, The SEC had nothing to do with our track program. If anything, Arkansas is the reason track programs in this league are as good as they are now. That, may actually be the most ludicrous portion of a post I've ever read on this board. Arkansas had already won 14 track national titles prior to joining the league.
As for basketball....The SEC was never revered as a legit basketball conference. Arkansas joining the league in 1991-92 solidified this league as not just a football league, but a legit basketball league as Kentucky was also now joined by a title contender, Arkansas.
You can use what ever excuse you might to try and limit Arkansas basketball accomplishments, but it's all an assumption on your part. Who is to say Kentucky basketball is as accomplished as it is now, with Arkansas in the league fo as many years as everyone else?
Arkansas won 11 conference championships in which those seasons resulted in no NCAA Tournaments, nor NIT tournaments. There are 6 seasons, Arkansas had 3 or less losses, with nothing to show for it.
The SEC is not why Arkansas eventually won a basketball title. UNLV is why Arkansas won a national championship and played for another in the mid 90's. Nolan needed men to compete with them, not boys.
How weak was the SEC when Arkansas joined in basketball? Arkansas went into Lexington and ended a 37 game home winning streak. Arkansas beat LSU 17 of the first 18 games the two teams met in league play. Dale Brown never beat Arkansas.
Let that sink in for a moment...
Posted on 1/30/15 at 6:26 pm to Tennessee Jed
quote:
This is not "apples to apples." If we are discussing Southeastern Conference it is imperative to recall that until 1975 only one team from a conference could participate in the NCAA tournament. In the 1960's and 1970's Vanderbilt and Tennessee had some outstanding teams but their second place finish precluded them from the tourney. Its highly likely that many of the Arkansas and Missouri teams that made the tournament through the 1974 season would have come in second behind Kentucky
You know what...How do you know Arkansas wouldn't have beat Kentucky back then??? People doubted us when we entered the league and guess what? We won the SEC Title our first year back in 1992. We have won 3 out of our last 4 against the Cats and dominated them our first year in the SEC. Kentucky is Kentucky ...I RESPECT their history but COME ON... Regardless, When the Hogs have been given the opportunity to go to the NCAA's, Historically we have capitalized with 6 FF's under 4 different coaches, 1 Natty and 1 runner up and a 40-29 record in the tourney I see Tenner has been to the NCAA 20 times...Mizzou 26 times...They have not closed the deal on the NATIONAL STAGE. The HOGS have FF's in 4 different decades (sustained success) We are not a One coach wonder like some.... Ballin' is in our DNA.. Check the SEC standings tricks. PLUS, If I might add,If it wasn't for us y'all would still be wearing Daisy Dukes during games..
This post was edited on 1/30/15 at 6:55 pm
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:03 pm to KCM0Tiger
Well done! 
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:20 pm to kywildcatfanone
quote:
Well done!
Thank you. I love college hoops. We were supposed to be an SEC contender in basketball. Even though our program is at a historic low, our fans are passionate and love college basketball. Hopefully we can get back to the norm and be a competitive program.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:25 pm to TheSwineAssault
Texas,SMU and Houston got pretty salty in the SWC,plus we made all the teams step up when Frank Broyles made basketball a priority.
Kicking Kentucky's butt when we joined the SEC proved we weren't a joke.
We care about basketball.
Kicking Kentucky's butt when we joined the SEC proved we weren't a joke.
We care about basketball.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:47 pm to Clark14
Kicking butt huh? 25-11 is our record on y'all.
Posted on 1/30/15 at 7:54 pm to WildcatMike
The first year,my mistake for not being specific
Posted on 1/30/15 at 8:01 pm to KCM0Tiger
quote:You mean Florida sinking like the Titanic and Arkansas having 15 wins before the 20th game for the first time in 18 years?
But with current trends of the programs I think Florida gets the nod.
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