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re: Peyton vs. Eli "in the clutch"
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:26 am to Rebellious
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:26 am to Rebellious
quote:
Well, one thing is for certain. They both will be Hall of Famers
If Eli Manning doesn't turn around the current two year rut he is in and retires with only a four year run of high-end QB play (2008-2011, plus the 2007 playoffs) his future as a HOFer is in doubt. From 2004-2007 (until the playoffs started) and 2012-2013, Manning was in the bottom half of NFL starters.
If Manning retired RIGHT NOW, the only QB in Canton with a worse personal resume (taking out team accomplishments) would be Terry Bradshaw and he has FOUR rings. Eli getting in is not a given right now.
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Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:29 am to Rebellious
quote:
and the year after he left, an inferior quarterback took UT to a national championship
Inferior quarterback, yes, but also a superior defense and run game.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:29 am to Rebellious
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Not really the point. The point is how Eli performs in the post-season vs. how Peyton performs in the off-season.
Peyton Manning's career postseason QB rating is 90.2, Eli's is 89.3.
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 11:30 am
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:30 am to Jorts R Us
quote:
I think it's cute that Ole Miss fans try to argue that they have a claim to the better Manning. Reminds you of their position in the SEC.
At least Eli was undefeated vs Florida 2-0
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:32 am to genro
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Relying purely on stats and numbers, and not counting the intangibles of what makes a great player great, is for nerds who never played the game
The problem with this is it only works in isolated situations. If you take this view on a macro scale, you end up having to argue things like Terry Bradshaw > Dan Marino and Phil Simms > Dan Fouts. It's just a poor way to analyze careers.
If Peyton and Eli had anywhere REMOTELY near similar numbers, ratings and personal accomplishments the 2 to 1 SB comparison MIGHT be worth making...MIGHT. The fact is though that Manning blows Eli out of the water in every tangible metric except SB wins.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:32 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Eli getting in is not a given right now.
LOL. The guy was the MVP of not one, but two Super Bowls, one of only 5 quarterbacks to do so. He has been selected for the Pro Bowl 3 times. And he has already passed for more yards than any other quarterback in Giants' history, including Phil Simms.
All that, by itself, would get him into the Hall, regardless of how his career ends.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:34 am to UMRealist
quote:
Eli isn't a guaranteed HOFer right now. Slow you're roll
You do realize there is only one case of a qb winning 2 superbowls and not getting in the hall.
There has never been a 2 time super bowl MVP kept out of the hall of fame.
ETA: he won vs the most consistent winningest team, patriots, in the salary cap era. Also in the biggest underdog role ever delivered a clutch last minute drive to beat the undefeated patriots.
He's getting in
This post was edited on 2/3/14 at 11:38 am
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:36 am to Rebelfan1985
quote:
At least Eli was undefeated vs Florida 2-0
The two Florida teams Eli beat were coached by Ron Zook and were a combined 15-11. The three Florida teams Peyton lost to were coached by Steve Spurrier and were a combined 34-4.
SLIGHTLY different
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:36 am to genro
quote:
Relying purely on stats and numbers, and not counting the intangibles of what makes a great player great, is for nerds who never played the game
What played a bigger part in last night's game? Peyton's "intangibles", or the other "intangibles" that don't show up on the stat line (OL protection, receivers not breaking free)? What about the biggest intangible...the opposing team? Peyton looked horrible against Seattle...but he looked better than Eli.
Here is the breakdown for you...
Peyton 34/49 280yds 1td 2 int....QBR 24.4
Eli 18/31 156yds 0td 5 int....QBR 2.1
There...that makes one "intangible" a bit more "tangible" for you.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:36 am to Roger Klarvin
I'm just saying that Eli is more emotionally invested than Peyton. He has more heart. It's not something that can be shown with numbers. It's based on my common sense, experience with the game, and ability to read people. It's nebulous, but not inaccurate. And we're allowed to talk about it, even if it can't be quantified.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:39 am to Rebellious
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3 times
in 10 years.. wooo
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:39 am to Rebelfan1985
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At least Eli was undefeated vs Florida 2-0
Eli beat two 8-5 Florida teams coached by Ron Zook. That's really Apples to Apples there.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:40 am to Rebelfan1985
not if he doesn't turn his career around
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:41 am to Rebelfan1985
quote:
You do realize there is only one case of a qb winning 2 superbowls and not getting in the hall.
It's Jim Plunkett, who admittedly has worse numbers than Eli. That being said, the ONLY current SB-winning HOF QB with a more average career is Terry Bradshaw and he won twice as many titles.
Eli playing in the era he is in will also hurt him. Sure, he threw more TDs than a guy like Bob Griese but compared to his peers and the passing nature of the game his numbers are less than pedestrian. I mean, is a guy bested by the likes of Tony Romo and Philip Rivers in his own era worthy of the HOF just because his great pass rush beat Tom Brady twice?
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:41 am to madmaxvol
Yall all trying to prove through stats that Peyton is better than Eli. 
Way to miss the point entirely. Also, I never said or implied that Eli was better. I just said he seems to have a certain emotional drive that Peyton lacks.
If you wanna put up huge stats and pretty numbers and look good all season, give me Peyton over any quarterback ever.
If you want to win one game - the Super Bowl, and it comes down to the "will to win" as much as it does the X's and O's, then give me Brady, Montana, Favre, Eli, Young, Bradshaw, Aikman, Elway... all long before Peyton.
Way to miss the point entirely. Also, I never said or implied that Eli was better. I just said he seems to have a certain emotional drive that Peyton lacks.
If you wanna put up huge stats and pretty numbers and look good all season, give me Peyton over any quarterback ever.
If you want to win one game - the Super Bowl, and it comes down to the "will to win" as much as it does the X's and O's, then give me Brady, Montana, Favre, Eli, Young, Bradshaw, Aikman, Elway... all long before Peyton.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:44 am to Rebellious
quote:
All that, by itself, would get him into the Hall, regardless of how his career ends
Eli Manning is a very special case. Only three QBs have won 1-2 SBs with average to below average overall careers. One is in the HOF, one is not and one is still playing.
Terry Bradshaw was getting in just because they couldn't keep a four time winner out. They could conceivably keep a two-timer out. It is not a given.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:46 am to genro
quote:
I'm just saying that Eli is more emotionally invested than Peyton. He has more heart. It's not something that can be shown with numbers. It's based on my common sense, experience with the game, and ability to read people. It's nebulous, but not inaccurate. And we're allowed to talk about it, even if it can't be quantified.
This is completely untestable and unverifiable. It's a convenient argument that cannot possibly be disproven and has no place in actual sports discussion. It's literally no different than saying evolution is false "because God".
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:47 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
average to below average overall careers
Average QB's don't make 3 Pro Bowls. Average QB's don't become the all time leading passer of a storied franchise. Average QB's don't own several NFL records.
Eli may not be elite, but calling him average or below average is ludicrous. Average would be someone like Elvis Grbac
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:50 am to madmaxvol
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Inferior quarterback, yes, but also a superior defense and run game.
I'm not calling you hypocritical because I don't know your stance now, but this is a common hypocritical statement made by average fans.........
......Because when the giants win, the credit is quickly given to other areas of the team, none given to Eli, (his defenses and running game were good).
Now that those areas are extremely lacking(especially oline and running game) everyone points fault at Eli instead of the extremely lacking areas.
Eli has never had a premier receiver btw, like a Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Wes Welker etc. Not saying Eli is better because he is not better than Peyton. But his receivers have always been very overrated. None of thise receivers put up the same numbers once they leave the giants, except Jeremy shocky.
Seems like a quarter of his ints are receiver-deflected ints.
Posted on 2/3/14 at 11:50 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:Actually it is because I'm a human being with common sense.
This is completely untestable and unverifiable. It's a convenient argument that cannot possibly be disproven and has no place in actual sports discussion. It's literally no different than saying evolution is false "because God".
If I say "my mother is sad" based on her body language, I guess you have to throw that out too.
We're talking sports here, not physics. Jesus Christ. As I've already stated, something that is unquantifiable can still be legitimate and accurate.
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