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re: Jim Harbaugh or Nick Saban?
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:07 pm to lsupride87
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:07 pm to lsupride87
quote:
If Harbaugh had 13 years at a power school I would be fine using accomplishments to say who is better.
So how do you prove who is better? Saban has more championships, bowl appearances, bowl victories, and career wins. You're basically saying Harbaugh is better because he just is. You really have no other data to support your conclusions.
You say Saban has had better success because he's at a better program? Well I can just as easily say Harbaugh had more success at the NFL level then did Saban because Harbaugh's San Francisco teams were among the most talented in the league while he was there. In fact, I'd say he had the most talented team in the league both in 2012 and 2013. How many championships did he win with them? Zero.
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Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:07 pm to lsupride87
I don't understand the concern in 2001 if Saban was better than CSS. Florida was good, but seemed to routinely under achieve compared to their talent advantage. I wasn't comparing any up and coming coach to CSS back then.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:09 pm to RollTide1987
quote:EXACTLY. Thats is really all we can go on. I am using his past ventures at similar situations to say I THINK HE IS BETTER. I could definitely be wrong. But I dont see how you could be so confident I am a "fricking idiot" for thinking Harbaugh would have extreme success at Bama
You're basically saying Harbaugh is better because he just is
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:09 pm to Tigerman97
quote:I would have been called a "fricking idiot" for sure. Same with all my other examples
I don't understand the concern in 2001 if Saban was better than CSS. Florida was good, but seemed to routinely under achieve compared to their talent advantage. I wasn't comparing any up and coming coach to CSS back then
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:10 pm to Tigerman97
quote:
I don't understand the concern in 2001 if Saban was better than CSS. Florida was good, but seemed to routinely under achieve compared to their talent advantage.
This is no more apparent than when you look at 2001 Florida. Easily the best team in the SEC, if not the entire country, and they lose to a 5-loss Auburn team as well as choke against Tennessee in the 9/11 make-up game. They are easily the best team in SEC history not to win a championship.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:11 pm to RollTide1987
quote:2013 Bama IMHO
This is no more apparent than when you look at 2001 Florida. Easily the best team in the SEC, if not the entire country, and they lose to a 5-loss Auburn team as well as choke against Tennessee in the 9/11 make-up game. They are easily the best team in SEC history not to win a championship.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:11 pm to RollTide1987
You could argue that Harbaugh has underachieved with the talent that he has in SF. Harbaugh is a good coach, but he's not on Saban's level. Maybe on Miles' level, maybe.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:12 pm to Dplymkr88
quote:
Maybe on Miles' level, maybe
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:14 pm to Tigerman97
All I keep hearing is how great SF's roster was when JH got there. Does anybody remember what Alex Smith was when he got there? I'll remind you, he was covsidered a colossal bust and one of the worst QB's in the league. That roster was full of players that hadn't done shite with the talent they had until he coached the shite out of that group. Saban inherited a good roster that he coached up here his first year too. They are both great coaches but JH has done it at the highest level, not saying Saban could not have done it but he quit and that makes all the difference in the comparison. I am a Saturday guy and unless the Saints are playing I think NFL football is unwatchable. But if you are comparing coaching it's simple.... At what level have you got it done at? I know a lot of good college coaches and they all say the same thing, the NFL is the pinnacle for both coaches and players.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:15 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Thats is really all we can go on.
Well...you also have the nearly 200 career victories as well as the national and conference titles. But whatever.
Unlike quarterbacks, head coaches are 100% most definitely judged on the how much they win and what they win. That's why if a head coach doesn't win, he's fired. Saban has won more than Harbaugh. Easily. Until he actually wins a championship, Harbaugh shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as Saban, Bryant, or Rockne.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:17 pm to JackVincennes
quote:
. Does anybody remember what Alex Smith was when he got there? I'll remind you, he was covsidered a colossal bust and one of the worst QB's in the league.
Harbaugh also didn't rely on Alex Smith to win games for him. He let his defense and running game do that. He had the talent to do that.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 12:18 pm
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:18 pm to Dplymkr88
3 nfc title game appearance and and 1super bowl appearance. Totally underacheiving 
So with similar talent, why didn't singletary get it done, then?
So with similar talent, why didn't singletary get it done, then?
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 12:19 pm
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:19 pm to JackVincennes
quote:
All I keep hearing is how great SF's roster was when JH got there.
So Saban's Miami roster=stacked
Harbaugh's SF team=horrible
About right?
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:19 pm to SpartyGator
quote:
3 nfc title game appearance and and 1super bowl appearance. Totally underacheiving
So with similar talent, why didn't singletary get it done, then?
If you don't win it, yes. How's Jimmy doing this year?
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:21 pm to SpartyGator
quote:
So with similar talent, why didn't singletary get it done, then?
I don't know. Perhaps it's because Singletary wasn't as good of a coach and tried to use Smith like he was a gunslinger? No one is arguing that Harbaugh isn't a good coach.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:24 pm to RollTide1987
The talent of the 49ers is way more comparable to other NFL teams then Bama's talent is to other college teams
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:29 pm to lsupride87
quote:
The talent of the 49ers is way more comparable to other NFL teams then Bama's talent is to other college teams
But that extra QB or WR makes all the difference and can be the difference between a 13-3 team and a 5-11 team. Harbaugh came into the league with that extra player or two already in place. Saban did not. And when he tried to get that extra player (Drew Brees), the Dolphins told him he could not have him.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 12:35 pm to JackVincennes
quote:
But if you are comparing coaching it's simple....
You're right. Saban built his own NC teams after two different schools. Has won 4 NCs and Vegas has him winning a 5th. There is no comparison between two.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:11 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
They are easily the best team in SEC history not to win a championship.
I thought that was 2010 Alabama.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 1:19 pm to lsupride87
quote:
quote:
small case could be made for Pete Carrol
Just a "small case" for the two time national champion and Super Bowl champion head coach?
The reason I would call it a "small case" is because CPC couldn't keep it going. I can't believe I am in this thread defending Saban.
From 2008-2014 Saban led teams have won 3 national titles and had 10 loses with a chance to win a 4th title. That is an amazing run. Plus he has built another perennially decent school who was in a down cycle up to the point where they won a title and put them into a position to win another title after his departure.
It says something about the infrastructure he leaves behind. My Auburn friends love to say that once Saban is gone Bama will go back to the way things used to be, but history doesn't suggest as much. There will be a fall off but if LSU is any indication it won't be much.
CPC couldn't maintain that length of success and has shown some signs that at the NFL level he can't maintain the success he had for the length of time he had it at USC. Though he seems to be getting the ship in order.
CJH has done a great job but nothing like what Saban has done. Winning a national title at Alabama isn't that hard. Losing one game since 2008 when the team didn't show up to play is almost unheard of in football outside of De La Salle. That is coaching. Lots of teams have great players and lay an egg every once in a while. Alabama loses, but they don't play bad even when some one beats them.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 1:22 pm
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