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Is the death of the Pocket Passer coming in CFB?
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:14 pm
Done a lot of research in determining the fall of the pocket passing qb in college football have a read.
The 4 teams in the college playoffs all started qb's who where ranked Dual Threat's coming out of high school, if Baylor and Tcu made it, they still would have started qb's who where rated Dual threats out of high school.
There are 5 Power conferences in the nation and in 2014 they where all won by Dual Threat Qb's
Blake Sims - Dual Threat out of high school. (SEC)
Jameis Winston - Dual Threat out of high school. (ACC)
Cardale Jones/ but JT Barett won them that conference. (BIG 10)
Bryce Petty - Dual Threat out of high school (LINK ) (BIG 12)
Marcus Mariota - Dual Threat out of high school (PAC 12)
Same thing last year except I believe Connor Cook won the BIG 10 and he is a Pro Style qb.
To further this stance I went back some years to see how the top teams in the nation did and what qb's they had.
Look at the top teams of 2014 and their qbs
2014
Ohio State - Dual Threat
Oregon - Dual Threat
TCU-DT
Alabama-DT
Michigan State-PP
Florida State-DT
Baylor - Neither
Georgia Tech -DT
Georgia- PP
Ucla-DT
2013
Florida State - DT
Auburn - DT
Michigan State - PP
South Carolina - DT
Missouri - DT
Oklahoma-DT
Clemson-DT
Alabama-PP
ORegon-DT
Ohio State-DT
2012
Alabama-PP
Oregon-DT
Notre Dame-DT
Georgia-PP
Stanford-PP
Texas a&m-DT
South Carolina-DT
Florida State-DT
Clemson-DT
Florida-DT
Kansas State-DT
LSU-PP
Louisville-DT
Boise State-DT
Oklahoma-PP
Northwestern-PP
Utah State-DT
Texas-Dt
Oregon State-PP
Vanderbilt-PP
Cincinati-DT
Nebraska-DT
Northern Ilinois-DT
Tulsa - DT
Furthermore I went back to see the evaluation of top 5 pocket passers and top 5 Dual threat qb's.
2013 Browne, Hackenberg, Shane Morris, Cooper Bateman, Kevin Olsen. Browne better have something during his junior year or else town and that other dude could start their sophomore years, Hackenberg the jury is still out after his abmyssal sophomore year, Morris was picked after a freshman qb, Bateman has been converted to WR! (how) and Olsen lost the job to Kaaya.
2012 = Keil, Kline, Magnum, Brewer, Voytik. I know Keil but the rest nope, I know the ship might have sailed with Kline because Geoff is starting and is a year younger.
That's a 1 out of 5 hit.
In the case of DT's
2012 = Winston, Cyer Miles, Chad Kelly, Mauk, Tonny Armstrong. Winston is expected to be the number 1 pick, cyer miles is starting next year, Chad Kelly should start next year, Mauk is alright and this should be armstrong's 3rd year starting.
2013 = Marshall, Woulard, JT Barett, Bailey, Zaire. Marshall converted to WR he was never a qb to start with, for Woulard is UCLA doesn't start rosen as a freshman he could have a shot, for we all know JT, Bailey didn't pan out, and Zaire could start next year.
2014 = Watson, Herrard, Hansen, Harris, Mahalak. Watson is going to set tons of record when its all said and done, Heard should beat out Swoopes, Hansen might have to wait a little, Harris could beat out Jennings for the starting job he played sparringly last year, I don't know or think Mahalak is ever going to start for oregon.
I would take the DT over the PP, you are looking at a 3/5 or higher hit rate for them. Plus for the past 4 years an average of 16 of the top 20 teams in the nation have used DTs, and since bama last won the NC all the other qb's have been DT. If you want your guy to be the number 1 pick recruit a pp.
By the way Golson, Hundley, Bridgewater, and Braxton miller where top 5 DT's in 2011, while Lemay, Brissett, Wittek, Kessler and David where top 5 PPs.
The 2011 Dual threat qb class hit on all 4 qb's as they should all be playing in the NFL at some time, Brissett should make it and you could argue that he is also a DT, while Kessler should go in the first round.
History tells us that either Eason or Shea could be bust in college.
I think its easier to play as a Dual threat in college over being in the pocket anyway.
The 4 teams in the college playoffs all started qb's who where ranked Dual Threat's coming out of high school, if Baylor and Tcu made it, they still would have started qb's who where rated Dual threats out of high school.
There are 5 Power conferences in the nation and in 2014 they where all won by Dual Threat Qb's
Blake Sims - Dual Threat out of high school. (SEC)
Jameis Winston - Dual Threat out of high school. (ACC)
Cardale Jones/ but JT Barett won them that conference. (BIG 10)
Bryce Petty - Dual Threat out of high school (LINK ) (BIG 12)
Marcus Mariota - Dual Threat out of high school (PAC 12)
Same thing last year except I believe Connor Cook won the BIG 10 and he is a Pro Style qb.
To further this stance I went back some years to see how the top teams in the nation did and what qb's they had.
Look at the top teams of 2014 and their qbs
2014
Ohio State - Dual Threat
Oregon - Dual Threat
TCU-DT
Alabama-DT
Michigan State-PP
Florida State-DT
Baylor - Neither
Georgia Tech -DT
Georgia- PP
Ucla-DT
2013
Florida State - DT
Auburn - DT
Michigan State - PP
South Carolina - DT
Missouri - DT
Oklahoma-DT
Clemson-DT
Alabama-PP
ORegon-DT
Ohio State-DT
2012
Alabama-PP
Oregon-DT
Notre Dame-DT
Georgia-PP
Stanford-PP
Texas a&m-DT
South Carolina-DT
Florida State-DT
Clemson-DT
Florida-DT
Kansas State-DT
LSU-PP
Louisville-DT
Boise State-DT
Oklahoma-PP
Northwestern-PP
Utah State-DT
Texas-Dt
Oregon State-PP
Vanderbilt-PP
Cincinati-DT
Nebraska-DT
Northern Ilinois-DT
Tulsa - DT
Furthermore I went back to see the evaluation of top 5 pocket passers and top 5 Dual threat qb's.
2013 Browne, Hackenberg, Shane Morris, Cooper Bateman, Kevin Olsen. Browne better have something during his junior year or else town and that other dude could start their sophomore years, Hackenberg the jury is still out after his abmyssal sophomore year, Morris was picked after a freshman qb, Bateman has been converted to WR! (how) and Olsen lost the job to Kaaya.
2012 = Keil, Kline, Magnum, Brewer, Voytik. I know Keil but the rest nope, I know the ship might have sailed with Kline because Geoff is starting and is a year younger.
That's a 1 out of 5 hit.
In the case of DT's
2012 = Winston, Cyer Miles, Chad Kelly, Mauk, Tonny Armstrong. Winston is expected to be the number 1 pick, cyer miles is starting next year, Chad Kelly should start next year, Mauk is alright and this should be armstrong's 3rd year starting.
2013 = Marshall, Woulard, JT Barett, Bailey, Zaire. Marshall converted to WR he was never a qb to start with, for Woulard is UCLA doesn't start rosen as a freshman he could have a shot, for we all know JT, Bailey didn't pan out, and Zaire could start next year.
2014 = Watson, Herrard, Hansen, Harris, Mahalak. Watson is going to set tons of record when its all said and done, Heard should beat out Swoopes, Hansen might have to wait a little, Harris could beat out Jennings for the starting job he played sparringly last year, I don't know or think Mahalak is ever going to start for oregon.
I would take the DT over the PP, you are looking at a 3/5 or higher hit rate for them. Plus for the past 4 years an average of 16 of the top 20 teams in the nation have used DTs, and since bama last won the NC all the other qb's have been DT. If you want your guy to be the number 1 pick recruit a pp.
By the way Golson, Hundley, Bridgewater, and Braxton miller where top 5 DT's in 2011, while Lemay, Brissett, Wittek, Kessler and David where top 5 PPs.
The 2011 Dual threat qb class hit on all 4 qb's as they should all be playing in the NFL at some time, Brissett should make it and you could argue that he is also a DT, while Kessler should go in the first round.
History tells us that either Eason or Shea could be bust in college.
I think its easier to play as a Dual threat in college over being in the pocket anyway.
18
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:16 pm to agregime1
Jacob Eason transcends the rankings of mortals
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:16 pm to agregime1
No.
Dual threat is such a silly term.
quote:
The 4 teams in the college playoffs all started qb's who where ranked Dual Threat's coming out of high school
Dual threat is such a silly term.
This post was edited on 5/22/15 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:16 pm to agregime1
The death of the pocket passer is because less QBs are pocket passers in high school
A lot of high schools these days just make the best athlete on the team the QB so they can get the ball in his hands as much as possible
A lot of high schools these days just make the best athlete on the team the QB so they can get the ball in his hands as much as possible
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:18 pm to goldennugget
No.
Pocket passers will always be around. The long term success of traditional offenses have been proven.
Pocket passers will always be around. The long term success of traditional offenses have been proven.
This post was edited on 5/22/15 at 1:18 pm
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:21 pm to wadewilson
quote:
Dual threat is such a silly term.
This
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:24 pm to boogiewoogie1978
Alabama this year is recruiting 3 qb's all dual threat, the tides are changing.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:30 pm to agregime1
Wonder how it will translate to the NFL
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:33 pm to agregime1
quote:I didn't even read the rest of the post after this. He may have been labeled a "DT" coming out of high school, but he was clearly a "PP" at FSU.
Jameis Winston - Dual Threat out of high school.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:33 pm to biggsc
quote:
Wonder how it will translate to the NFL
It won't. These one read and then run QBs will not work in the NFL, and that has been proven over and over again.
To be successful in the NFL you have to be able to throw from the pocket.
This post was edited on 5/22/15 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:36 pm to goldennugget
quote:
The death of the pocket passer is because less QBs are pocket passers in high school
Fewer.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:38 pm to RB10
They don't translate too well, but don't forget they where 11 starting Dual threat qb's last year.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:39 pm to joeyb147
quote:
He may have been labeled a "DT" coming out of high school
Basically, any QB out of high school that's ever run for more than 1 first down is labeled a dual threat.
The bigger question is how many of these high-school "dual threat" QB's actually have a future at QB. Most high schools just take the best athlete on the team and snap it to him out of the gun.
Winston ran for less than 300 yards in college. He is a pocket passer.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:40 pm to agregime1
I think what is happening is that the there are fewer of the made of stone Manning type QBs out there. Don't confuse what OP is calling Dual Threat with Michael Vick. A lot of these DT's are able to step away from a rusher but it doesn't make them a "running quarterback." Winston and Petty can step away but definitely don't want a lot of running plays drawn up for them.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:42 pm to agregime1
Blake Sims made some plays with his legs, but his style all year was more of a Pocket Passer than that of duel threat QB's.
I think the term dual threat just gets thrown on QB's who have run skills. They were called scramblers back in the day.
I think the term dual threat just gets thrown on QB's who have run skills. They were called scramblers back in the day.
This post was edited on 5/22/15 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:44 pm to agregime1
quote:
Done a lot of research in determining the fall of the pocket passing qb in college football have a read.
I'm not going to read anything that has such a dumb intro as that.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:45 pm to GnashRebel
quote:
A lot of these DT's are able to step away from a rusher but it doesn't make them a "running quarterback."
Exactly. Drew Brees can move around in the pocket and avoid a rush. Does that make him a dual threat? No.
Michael Vick is a dual threat QB. RG3 is a dual threat QB.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:46 pm to agregime1
quote:
They don't translate too well, but don't forget they where 11 starting Dual threat qb's last year.
The only ones who will remain a starter will be able to throw from the pocket.
RG3 and Kaep were supposed to break the mold and revolutionize the QB position, look how that turned out for them.
Chip Kelly was supposed to revolutionize offense with his one read system. It worked for one year and then was figured out.
The only exception, right now, is Russell Wilson. He's the only dual threat QB who has remained uninjured and had success.
Posted on 5/22/15 at 1:47 pm to RB10
quote:
It won't. These one read and then run QBs will not work in the NFL, and that has been proven over and over again.
To be successful in the NFL you have to be able to throw from the pocket.
OR you can be Cam Newton and do both.
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