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re: Brent Rooker gets ripped off. Doesn't win golden spikes
Posted on 6/29/17 at 10:57 pm to Godawgs4
Posted on 6/29/17 at 10:57 pm to Godawgs4
quote:
Now I know individually players have exceeded one of those categories in a given year. But overall that has to be the best collective season by an individual.
Brandon Larson 1997
.385 BA, 40 HRs, 118 RBIs. And I don't want to hear the steroid and juiced bat argument because Palmeiro had both.
quote:
So that is why I said second best but maybe best ever although it is hard to compare different eras.
This is true. Rooker easily had the best season for a hitter that anyone has had in the BBCOR era, but don't get ahead of yourself. Dave Magadan hit .525 in 1983 for Alabama. he only had 12 Ks in 212 ABs. He also drew 42 BBs, which brought his OBP up to .602. His OPS was 1431, higher than Rooker's this year of 1305.
And I don't want to get far too deep into pitchrs, but Aaron Nola, had back to back seasons that were absurd.
In 2013 he went 12-1 with a 1.57 ERA with 122 Ks to only 18 BBs in 126 IP. That's a WHIP of .80. He followed that up in 2013 with a 13-1 record with a 1.47 ERA with 134 Ks to only 27 BBs in 116.1 IP. That's a WHIP of .83. For reference, the major league leader in WHIP last year was Max Scherzer at .97.
And Nola is just one of many SEC pitchers who have put up incredible seasons.
This post was edited on 6/29/17 at 10:58 pm
2
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:03 pm to lsufball19
I'll give the edge to Larson.
Case closed.
Case closed.
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:23 pm to lsufball19
I believe back in 1997 Alex Box was a power hitter's park. Msu had a non friendly power park. I believe Msu used to hit a lot of homers in Baton Rouge because of it. So equating homer numbers is not equal.
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:29 pm to MullenBoys
quote:
I believe back in 1997 Alex Box was a power hitter's park
the old Box had the exact same dimensions as the new Alex Box, and the orientation of the stadiums are also the same. Alex Box is not a hitters park. It's pretty nuetral. We just recruited to hit homeruns. Juiced bats and juiced players helped, but Palmeiro benefited from the same. Dudy Noble is slightly deeper in the power alleys, the same down the lines, and much shorter in center by 15 feet. Alex Box is no more a hitters park than Dudy Noble has ever been.
Look no one is saying Brent Rooker didn't have a historic season, but to say emphatically that it's the best or second best in SEC history is a stretch.
This post was edited on 6/29/17 at 11:31 pm
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:44 pm to lsufball19
I know for a fact we pulled our fences in like 5 or 6 years ago? It used to be difficult to put one out of the park. Ron Polk recruited that way (small ball) and speedy top outfield defenders. It will be interesting to see what Andy wants in our new upcoming ball park though. Anyway, good discussion and I do believe Andy Canizzaro is going to be one heluva coach. John Cohen said he is a better coach than he was. Good hire.
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:48 pm to lsufball19
quote:
Look no one is saying Brent Rooker didn't have a historic season, but to say emphatically that it's the best or second best in SEC history is a stretch.
But Rooker did it without juice or those bats lol.
Posted on 6/29/17 at 11:57 pm to MullenBoys
quote:
But Rooker did it without juice or those bats lol.
and his overall numbers aren't as good...It would be totally guessing to see if his numbers would translate to eclipse those from prior eras. Brandon Larson owns the SEC record for home runs in a season by 10 and RBIs by 12. Adding to it a .385 BA is ridiculous. He destroyed SEc records for RBIs and homeruns in the same season and finished 2nd in BA. Brad Cresse in the post juiced bat era hit .388 in 2000 with 30 homeruns and 106 RBIs. his homerun and RBItotals from 2000 are 2nd in SEC history.
This post was edited on 6/29/17 at 11:58 pm
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:27 am to lsufball19
Is it possible to have an honest discussion here? Wasn't Skip Bertman for instance still your head coach when Brad Cresse was playing? Those were the days when you first started getting hit with the juicing stuff.
Sure, if you are juiced and can hit them out of the park, you are going to get more homers and by sheer statistics more Rbi's. Is that complicated?
Rooker did it without juicing and furthermore a very down year for Msu after 13 guys signed contracts. Cresse had far more help the entire season.
Cresse never made the majors. He played minor league a few years and that was all. Lets see (all things equal) who makes the majors and has a career.
Sure, if you are juiced and can hit them out of the park, you are going to get more homers and by sheer statistics more Rbi's. Is that complicated?
Rooker did it without juicing and furthermore a very down year for Msu after 13 guys signed contracts. Cresse had far more help the entire season.
Cresse never made the majors. He played minor league a few years and that was all. Lets see (all things equal) who makes the majors and has a career.
This post was edited on 6/30/17 at 12:37 am
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:33 am to BluegrassBelle
quote:
It was a toss up between McKay and Rooker
It really wasn't.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:37 am to MullenBoys
quote:
Cresse never made the majors. He played minor league a few years and that was all. Lets see (all things equal) who makes the majors and has a career.
And that has what to do with the seasons they had in college?
quote:
Rooker did it without juicing and furthermore a very down year for Msu after 13 guys signed contracts. Cresse had far more help the entire season.
You say this like he put up the same numbers but did it without advantages. No he put up significantly lower numbers without advantages. Like I said, it's complete conjecture to say had he played in the same era he would have surpassed what those guys did. Larson had 10 more homeruns in 1997 than any one else of that entire era did. All things being equal for the era Larson destroyed his competition.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:48 am to lsufball19
I know Lsu fans love their baseball and sometimes it clouds the mind. Let's forget juicing for a minute. You do realize the Sec was not a baseball conference outside of Lsu, Msu and Florida back then? Once again you mention another player with old bats during a time we already discussed and the SEC was nothing like it is today.
Most schools have bought into the game of baseball and since then South Carolina, Vandy etc etc have pitching. Things are harder now than back then but if you want to excuse that as a crutch and ignore the bats and (juicing?) then go right ahead.
What Rooker did this year given the fact the Sec is so much better with pitching than 21 years ago is remarkable.
Most schools have bought into the game of baseball and since then South Carolina, Vandy etc etc have pitching. Things are harder now than back then but if you want to excuse that as a crutch and ignore the bats and (juicing?) then go right ahead.
What Rooker did this year given the fact the Sec is so much better with pitching than 21 years ago is remarkable.
This post was edited on 6/30/17 at 12:53 am
Posted on 6/30/17 at 1:37 am to MullenBoys
quote:
You do realize the Sec was not a baseball conference outside of Lsu, Msu and Florida back then?
The SEC put 4 teams in Omaha in 1997 including both teams in the finals
and all from the West but you're right, the SEC being dominant in baseball is a new thing quote:
What Rooker did this year given the fact the Sec is so much better with pitching than 21 years ago is remarkable.
You really don't see the irony of your opening statement and this
Honest question, how old are you?
This post was edited on 6/30/17 at 1:40 am
Posted on 6/30/17 at 2:34 am to The Winner
Are you no longer posing as an LSU fan?
Posted on 6/30/17 at 6:29 am to reggieray420
Brad Cresse in 2000:
.388 avg
.490 obp
.795 slg
30 HR
106 RBI
73 R
LSU scored 652 runs that year. Meaning Cress either scored or drove in a full quarter of the total LSU plated.
I'm not bringing him up to be in the discussion. More like bringing him up to mention that these seasons are more commonplace in the SEC than you may think.
.388 avg
.490 obp
.795 slg
30 HR
106 RBI
73 R
LSU scored 652 runs that year. Meaning Cress either scored or drove in a full quarter of the total LSU plated.
I'm not bringing him up to be in the discussion. More like bringing him up to mention that these seasons are more commonplace in the SEC than you may think.
This post was edited on 6/30/17 at 6:32 am
Posted on 6/30/17 at 11:19 am to GFunk
My last sentence was it is difficult to compare different eras. Also, Palmeiro was not juicing in college in 1984 either. DNF was a pitchers park in '84.
The 90's gorilla ball era definitely skewes the numbers for some of those guys.
Rooker's season is easily one of the best ever in the SEC and I doubt will be duplicated any soon.
The Golden Spikes award is subjective. Interesting enough, Palmeiro did not win it in '84. Oddibe McDowell of Arizona State won it.
Will Clark, Palmeiro's teammate won it in 1985. His stats were significantly less than '84 as was Palmeiro's. But the State was ranked #1 and good portion of the year and went to the CWS finishing 3rd that year.
So the CWS certainly helps with name recognition.
The 90's gorilla ball era definitely skewes the numbers for some of those guys.
Rooker's season is easily one of the best ever in the SEC and I doubt will be duplicated any soon.
The Golden Spikes award is subjective. Interesting enough, Palmeiro did not win it in '84. Oddibe McDowell of Arizona State won it.
Will Clark, Palmeiro's teammate won it in 1985. His stats were significantly less than '84 as was Palmeiro's. But the State was ranked #1 and good portion of the year and went to the CWS finishing 3rd that year.
So the CWS certainly helps with name recognition.
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:21 pm to MullenBoys
Eddy Furniss had not one, not two, but three seasons as good as or better than Rooker
And his ERA was 0.00
And his ERA was 0.00
This post was edited on 6/30/17 at 12:22 pm
Posted on 6/30/17 at 12:41 pm to Sun God
quote:
Eddy Furniss had not one, not two, but three seasons as good as or better than Rooke
Depends on how you want to look at it. How many categories did Eddie lead the league in , total, for those 3 years? HR and RBI one year. Never a batting title that I remember.
But go back and look at the 1997 NCAA stats. Holy Mother what a different game they were playing. Some guy led the country with a .493 average. HR leader had 40
Posted on 6/30/17 at 1:24 pm to Vecchio Cane
quote:Pete Incaviglia had 48 in 1986 or so. Oklahoma State could always hit but rarely had the pitching for CWS
HR leader had 40
Posted on 6/30/17 at 1:52 pm to Vecchio Cane
Lance Berkman went .431/41/134/1.569 for Rice in 97
Posted on 6/30/17 at 1:54 pm to Sun God
quote:
Lance Berkman went .431/41/134/1.569 for Rice in 97
It was fun looking back at those names. Berkman was so freaking filty. Kotsay at Fresno, etc.
Good Times, and LSU was King of College Baseball
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