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re: Western Imperialism of The Middle East - Britain, USA, & Zionism.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 9:11 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
Posted on 1/19/15 at 9:11 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
BS on this one. If they don't ally with the Axis, they don't get their asses kicked. If Germany wins the war, the Middle East becomes German colonies anyway
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Posted on 1/19/15 at 9:19 pm to Old Sarge
Central Powers...not Axis. Axis was the sequel, and if the Central Powers had won the war much of the Middle East would've remained Ottoman.
This post was edited on 1/19/15 at 9:21 pm
Posted on 1/19/15 at 9:29 pm to KSGamecock
Oops 
Posted on 1/19/15 at 9:43 pm to Old Sarge
It's an important point in OP's WW1 Zionist Conspiracy theory:
Zionists needed to undermine the Ottoman Empire (who owned present day Israel at the time) and the larger Central Powers by extension and so supported the Allies (including manipulating America into the war) in an effort to secure a state. Their efforts were rewarded with the Balfour declaration which extended British support for a Jewish state in Palestine which would later become a British territory.
Zionism started in Germany/Austria so this naturally played into the Dolchstoßlegende, or Stab-in-the-back, legend that was popular in Germany following the war...that Jews had sabotaged German war efforts and of course we know the story from there, something something rise of Hitler, something something Holocaust, something something establishment of Israel.
It fits together quite nicely if you're apt to believe that sort of thing.
Zionists needed to undermine the Ottoman Empire (who owned present day Israel at the time) and the larger Central Powers by extension and so supported the Allies (including manipulating America into the war) in an effort to secure a state. Their efforts were rewarded with the Balfour declaration which extended British support for a Jewish state in Palestine which would later become a British territory.
Zionism started in Germany/Austria so this naturally played into the Dolchstoßlegende, or Stab-in-the-back, legend that was popular in Germany following the war...that Jews had sabotaged German war efforts and of course we know the story from there, something something rise of Hitler, something something Holocaust, something something establishment of Israel.
It fits together quite nicely if you're apt to believe that sort of thing.
This post was edited on 1/19/15 at 9:45 pm
Posted on 1/19/15 at 11:17 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
And yet for all the word-of-mouth Jewish atrocities and ethnic cleansing, there is still the little inconvienent fact that there are almost as many Arabs living in Israel as voting citizens as there are Arabs in Palestine. Israel is 20% Arab Muslim. The whole of old Transjordan is 0% Jewish.
Of course, the constant wars the Muslims have declared on the Israelis (Jew and Muslim) are all about social justice. Nothing to do with their own imperialism.
Of course, the constant wars the Muslims have declared on the Israelis (Jew and Muslim) are all about social justice. Nothing to do with their own imperialism.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 11:37 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
almost as many Arabs living in Israel as voting citizens as there are Arabs in Palestine.
Gaza Strip - 1,816,379
West Bank - 2,345,107
All Palestine - 4,161,486
--------------------------
Arabs in Israel - 1,688,600
So no, not almost.
quote:
voting citizens
20% of the population, 10% of the Knesset.
quote:
Jewish atrocities and ethnic cleansing
Extreme right-wing Israelis continue to settle in Palestinian lands and many of them like to propagate the idea that Palestinians aren't even a real group. IMO that's an atrocity and ethnic warfare of sorts.
quote:
the constant wars the Muslims have declared on the Israelis
Meh, it's a mixed bag. The Arabs started Yom Kippur. The Israelis started the Six-Day war and the Suez Crisis. All the other conflicts are much much more muddled.
I'm not anti-Israel...I think that the country should exist and has a right to defend itself but I don't think we should continue to write them a blank check militarily, economically or diplomatically to frick shite up. It's insane.
This post was edited on 1/19/15 at 11:41 pm
Posted on 1/19/15 at 11:43 pm to KSGamecock
Yeah I looked at the stats afterward for the population and meant to adjust it to as many as either the West Bank or the strip.
And I don't think the Palestinians are a separate ethnic group from the Jordanians. That's silly.
The Arabs out number the Israelis on a massive scale, but I'm supposed to feel sorry for them when the Jews beat the shite out of them? Muslims ruled the Balkans for centuries and did the same and worse to the Christians there. I feel little sympathy for them as a people, they have a better track record than the nazis for destroying and eliminating minority groups.
And I don't think the Palestinians are a separate ethnic group from the Jordanians. That's silly.
The Arabs out number the Israelis on a massive scale, but I'm supposed to feel sorry for them when the Jews beat the shite out of them? Muslims ruled the Balkans for centuries and did the same and worse to the Christians there. I feel little sympathy for them as a people, they have a better track record than the nazis for destroying and eliminating minority groups.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 11:44 pm to cokebottleag
"Kurds are just Mountain Turks" - Ataturk. It's an old tactic of ethnic cleansing.
...and the Arabs didn't occupy the Balkans.
...and the Arabs didn't occupy the Balkans.
This post was edited on 1/19/15 at 11:48 pm
Posted on 1/19/15 at 11:52 pm to KSGamecock
Didn't say Arabs. But the Arabs were a large part of the empire that did.
You do know Palestine and Jordan used to be one mandate right? And that middle eastern borders were not drawn with relation to any ethnic groups?
Syrian, Lebanese, Kurd, Saudi, marsh Arab, etc are all distinct with their own ethnicity and culture. Palestinian is not.
You do know Palestine and Jordan used to be one mandate right? And that middle eastern borders were not drawn with relation to any ethnic groups?
Syrian, Lebanese, Kurd, Saudi, marsh Arab, etc are all distinct with their own ethnicity and culture. Palestinian is not.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 11:56 pm to cokebottleag
quote:
You do know Palestine and Jordan used to be one mandate right? And that middle eastern borders were not drawn with relation to any ethnic groups?
Yea, I think we both know that.
I guess we're both just going to have to disagree on this.
Posted on 1/19/15 at 11:59 pm to KSGamecock
BUT I MUST CONVINCE YOU OF HOW YOU ARE WRONG ON THE INTERNETS, IT IS OF GREAT IMPORTANCE!!!!
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