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Posted on 11/20/14 at 12:09 pm to DMagic
Posted on 11/20/14 at 12:50 pm to arcalades
quote:
Jesus Christ is ultra conservative
Not in my opinion he wasn't. How do you equate "love all, give all, help all" with being ultra conservative? In our 2014 language, he was a Socialist. In "his time" he was radical with his teachings but even then I'm not sure you could ever call him ultra conservative. I'm a Christian (and a traditional conservative) and it took me a long time to come to that conclusion.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 1:06 pm to sorantable
quote:
Do any of you mentioned above read the bible?
I no longer read it.
quote:
Do any of you find value in the Bible from a secular or a humanist perspective?
Sure, it fuels my hate of the gays...
Seriously though, the bible is full of good morals and lessons. Many of which I try to live by.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 1:08 pm to Wtodd
quote:
Jesus Christ is ultra conservative
Not in my opinion he wasn't. How do you equate "love all, give all, help all" with being ultra conservative? In our 2014 language, he was a Socialist. In "his time" he was radical with his teachings but even then I'm not sure you could ever call him ultra conservative. I'm a Christian (and a traditional conservative) and it took me a long time to come to that conclusion.
Politics and Religion.... y'all are trying to break the interwebz.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 1:09 pm to NATidefan
Posted on 11/20/14 at 1:15 pm to DownSouthJukin
quote:
Look to the Middle East and why it's so screwed up, and to what religious literature those populations look for guidance.
I think it's less about Islam in particular, and more about the fact that their governments developed into virtual theocracies. Theocracies by nature are anti-intellectual and will stifle social development. There was a time when the Arab world was extremely developed and well ahead of Europe in most respects, pretty much all through the Medieval period. A lot of the foundations of our modern science and math were laid by Muslim intellectuals in the Islamic Golden Age. Once Baghdad was sacked in the 13th century most of that went out the window.
Now you have theocracies which follow Islam as the letter of the law. Being war-ravaged on top of that.. well what you can expect to develop is a politically unstable wasteland. A turn toward theocracy can be the death knell for a developed society.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 1:17 pm to NATidefan
quote:
Politics and Religion.... y'all are trying to break the interwebz.
Jesus was not concerned with the rule of government. His movement was completely apolitical, it was a moral movement, a compassionate revolution at a time when the Jews cried out for a political one. Jesus did not come to give the Jews what they wanted (a free kingdom of their own), he came to give them what they needed (salvation and an eternal kingdom in heaven).
The teachings of Jesus are all about compassion. Don't give out of obligation, give out of joy and out of love. Don't follow the laws because you fear the punishment, follow the laws because they are the best blue print for a happy and fulfilling life.
The ministry of Jesus was about as politically Communist as a canned food drive. It was all about giving, not out of compulsion, but out of compassion, because the greatest way to love God isn't by praying 5 times a day, it isn't by following all of the laws to the letter, it isn't by self denial of any and all perceived indulgences, it's by loving other people. It is not the letter of the law that matters but the intent. It is not the magnitude of the action but the compassion with which it is given.
Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 1:20 pm to kingbob
quote:
kingbob
You actually thought I cared enough to read that.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 1:26 pm to NATidefan
quote:
You actually thought I cared enough to read that.
The post may have been addressing you, but it wasn't really for you. I just thought it was an interesting topic that was related to the OP. Regardless of the facts of history or the dogma of religion, the interplay of religious works and philosophy have such a profound effect on history that it is often tough to separate the two.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 1:57 pm to sorantable
quote:
Do any of you mentioned above read or find value in the Bible from a secular or a humanist perspective?
Yes
Posted on 11/20/14 at 2:01 pm to arcalades
quote:
Jesus Christ is ultra conservative
Jesus drank alcohol, fed the poor, mingled amongst and befriended "immoral" people, etc.
He did things that many Christians today would condemn him for.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 2:13 pm to sorantable
quote:
Do any of you mentioned above read or find value in the Bible from a secular or a humanist perspective?
Yes. I enjoy quite a bit of the book of Proverbs, and the teachings of Jesus are, for the most part, solid advice.
There is also a passage from the book of Samuel that illustrates government very well,
quote:
4 So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not follow your ways; now appoint a king to lead[b] us, such as all the other nations have.”
6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.”
10 Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle[c] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.”
Posted on 11/20/14 at 2:24 pm to sorantable
(no message)
This post was edited on 7/21/15 at 7:00 am
Posted on 11/20/14 at 2:25 pm to HempHead
quote:
There is also a passage from the book of Samuel that illustrates government very well,
quote:
4 So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not follow your ways; now appoint a king to lead[b] us, such as all the other nations have.”
6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.”
10 Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle[c] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.”
Belongs on the poliboard
Posted on 11/20/14 at 2:29 pm to kingbob
That's some quality posting kingbob.
Posted on 11/20/14 at 2:49 pm to sorantable
Anyone who can't find something helpful in the book of Proverbs is lying
Posted on 11/20/14 at 5:05 pm to kingbob
quote:
kingbob
Great post
Posted on 11/20/14 at 6:16 pm to sorantable
I really don't understand why some nonbelievers are so bothered by the Bible. I found the Bible interesting when I believed, and I still find it interesting now (albeit for different reasons). It is inarguably the most important book in the history of western society and should be treated as such. IMO everyone should read it, because far too many Christians and nonbelievers alike are horribly ignorant of what is in it.
I despise people who brag about their non-belief and have never so much as even opened the Koran, the Bible, the Vedas, etc. They are worse than those who blindly believe because at least many of them are seeking meaning and purpose through belief. "Angry atheists" are just arrogant assholes who make idiots of themselves.
If you haven't read the source material and researched the various major religions, how can you in good faith trash them? It's like saying Charles Dickens is a shite writer without ever reading his novels.
I despise people who brag about their non-belief and have never so much as even opened the Koran, the Bible, the Vedas, etc. They are worse than those who blindly believe because at least many of them are seeking meaning and purpose through belief. "Angry atheists" are just arrogant assholes who make idiots of themselves.
If you haven't read the source material and researched the various major religions, how can you in good faith trash them? It's like saying Charles Dickens is a shite writer without ever reading his novels.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:02 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
I really don't understand why some nonbelievers are so bothered by the Bible
So they can be an entitled victim and keep the butthurt going.
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