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re: Our military just took down a Taliban leader
Posted on 5/25/16 at 12:06 pm to GnashRebel
Posted on 5/25/16 at 12:06 pm to GnashRebel
quote:
You basically state that our involvement results in problems so we should not be involved.
Not exactly what i said. Said our involvement is why we are targeted by their hate. I said our involvement has not brought any stability. (And quite often are involvement was to create instability really.) We can not fix their problems and that is a fact.
quote:
There are many regions of the world that are fricked up without any US involvement.
True, but not a related point. Purely used for distraction. Because there are people who get in fights does not give me an excuse to go out and punch someone for no reason.
quote:
I am no defender of the Israelis but their flaws are no to blame for all the regions issues.
Never said it was to blame for ALL issues. More exaggerations, twisting of words, used for distraction technique so you can go on a different rant.
quote:
You are focused on sins of the past
Past, PRESENT, AND FUTURE. When we stop meddling it will be the past.
This post was edited on 5/25/16 at 12:08 pm
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Posted on 5/25/16 at 12:52 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
Your fresh and new theory that if we stay out of it, it will all work out for us is inspiring to me. I don't think you give the other meddlers enough credit. Staying out of it will not work out in our favor in the long run. China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Russia; these nations give zero fricks about your weariness with the region. They will (already are attempting to) fill the void. I think there is a legitimate debate to be had on how to have a more positive influence on the region. I do no respect the "just stay out of it" theory. It is just unrealistic.
Posted on 5/25/16 at 1:04 pm to GnashRebel
quote:
Your fresh and new theory that if we stay out of it
quote:
A) Admit to the public that we live in a dog eat dog world and we are going to dominate their region for our own gain. Show detailed reports that is not just the 1% of the wealthy who are gaining from this but the overall population of current and future tax payers. Show that it is not the wealthy 1% using the tax payers military to dominate the region while using their companies to get all the gains leaving the country with nothing but debt. Show how much the tax payer gains for every dollar spent in controlling and dominating that region. Stop with all the bullshite propaganda.
So you went with A) except you want full on state propaganda. How new and refreshing.
Posted on 5/25/16 at 1:14 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
So you went with A) except you want full on state propaganda. How new and refreshing.
I think you can help them help themselves and still have a stable society that we would like to see develop. I think one major issue is that many dictators served their purpose but needed to move in the direction of transition to a more democratic society over time. We helped steer the Germans, Japanese, and South Koreans in positive directions while easing our way out of their business. I don't think our involvement, sometimes to avoid genecide or sectarian civil war is always for our own gain.
Posted on 5/25/16 at 1:23 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
America's meddling in the Middle East has never produced stability. It has only produced conflict.
Wrong. The ME has ALWAYS been in conflict dating back to biblical times thousands of years ago. I would argue, and am supported by facts I believe, that we had LESS issues from that region when we were essentially controlling it through dictators. Again, no ISIS, far fewer attacks on the West, etc. Again, not even disputable. So your entire thesis is flawed from the beginning.
quote:
The US is also one of the biggest supports of the Zionist invasion which is one of the biggest reasons that this regions is unstable. Read the book Blood Brothers if you want an inside perspective from a christian in the region. It will change the way you view your current perspective supported by mass US propaganda.
If you are really blaming Israel for the problems in the ME which are fueled by radical islam, you're the one that's bought into the left-wing propaganda, not me my friend. Israel does what it has to do in a dog-eat-dog world where all of their neighbors want them completely annihilated. Does it make all of their actions right? Not at all. Would you do whatever you had to do to survive? I bet you would. Again, the ME was a cluster before Israel was ever reinstituted as a sovereign nation. So another flawed premise on your part.
quote:
2 ways either 1 is fine...
A) Admit to the public that we live in a dog eat dog world and we are going to dominate their region for our own gain. Show detailed reports that is not just the 1% of the wealthy who are gaining from this but the overall population of current and future tax payers. Show that it is not the wealthy 1% using the tax payers military to dominate the region while using their companies to get all the gains leaving the country with nothing but debt. Show how much the tax payer gains for every dollar spent in controlling and dominating that region. Stop with all the bullshite propaganda.
B) Pull out of the Middle East. Stop the CIA from constantly assassinating and bribing their leaders. Stop playing spheres of influence. If corporations want to play the game of risk in these countries they can risk their own assets for their gain.
The first option would work if we didn't live in such a PC society where the bleeding heart liberals would lose their minds if the government were that honest with them.
Option two would never work. You would end up with a massive radical islamic kingdom that exterminates all minorities and lives to attack the West. Really dumb option unless you want your grandkids growing up in a caliphate.
Posted on 5/25/16 at 1:31 pm to GnashRebel
quote:
Your argument is flawed. You basically state that our involvement results in problems so we should not be involved. It is impossible to prove you are wrong because it is impossible to know if not being involved would result in more problems.
You are right that his argument is flawed in several ways but it is possible to prove that us not being involved wouldn't result in less problems. The ME has been a cluster for long before the USA ever existed as a nation. Fact.
quote:
There are many regions of the world that are fricked up without any US involvement. Also, you ignore that there are other nations that are also manipulating politics in the region. Do we sit back while Russia, China, and Iran manipulate the region for their own purposes?
I am no defender of the Israelis but their flaws are no to blame for all the regions issues. You are merely buying into the narrative spewed by the denizens of the Middle East and their left wing apologists in the west. Are they responsible for the dictatorship in Egypt? Are they the cause of the Syrian civil war? They had nothing to do with the sectarian warfare in Iraq. Do they force the Yemenis to embrace radical ideologies? Do they force the Iranians to cower before a group of religions assclowns and their thug enforcers? Did they cause the Taliban to attempt its takeover of Afghanistan?
You are focused on sins of the past that nobody can undo and you choose to ignore the regional pastime of killing each other for millenia. Not saying we are always right in what we do, but I have seen what certain members of that society do if not held in check and have no desire to see it happen on a larger scale.
Absolutely spot on. Glad to see another thinking human in this thread, rather than just a left-wing, anti-Israel, isolationist with no real solutions.
Posted on 5/25/16 at 1:39 pm to tider04
Wrong, false, false, wrong, false, wrong. You provided no facts just typical extreme right wing cuck establishment loving, military industrial complex backing, stupidity. You are a first class idiot. Nothing you said was original, just standard excuse making for all of the mistakes over 80+ years of failed policies.
Posted on 5/25/16 at 1:42 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
Wrong, false, false, wrong, false, wrong. You provided no facts just typical extreme right wing cuck establishment loving, military industrial complex backing, stupidity. You are a first class idiot. Nothing you said was original, just standard excuse making for all of the mistakes over 80+ years of failed policies.
Wrong again. And yet again you provided no rebuttal for FACTS. Your theories do not trump historical facts. That's the problem with the left-winged, bleeding heart liberal mindset. I'd bet a silver dollar you think Bernie Sanders is the solution for America, don't you? You guys are easy to spot. You live in ideology instead of reality.
Posted on 5/25/16 at 1:45 pm to tider04
quote:
I'd bet a silver dollar you think Bernie Sanders is the solution for America, don't you? You guys are easy to spot. You live in ideology instead of reality.
Well you would lose but that's not a surprise because you are a first class idiot. I hated the left long before i quit being a supporter for the Republicans. But the center always seems way to the left to the extreme right.
Posted on 5/25/16 at 1:49 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
Well you would lose but that's not a surprise because you are a first class idiot. I hated the left long before i quit being a supporter for the Republicans. But the center always seems way to the left to the extreme right.
Name calling is always the first sign of an intellectually defeated person. Congrats on outing yourself. And if you think I'm a right winger, you are sorely mistaken. I just know how to think for myself instead of letting MSNBC or whatever other left-wing conspiratorial entity you listen to do the thinking for me. I'm more than happy to exchange ideas and even have my mind changed. It just won't be by someone so intellectually weak that they are reduced to 3rd grade name calling and the only solution they have is to isolate ourselves and hope an enemy bent on our destruction can't make their way over here one day.
Posted on 5/25/16 at 1:58 pm to tider04
quote:
Name calling is always the first sign of an intellectually defeated person.
So you are outing yourself for using the term "thinking human"? I am sure you will just try to spin this like you always do. You aren't fooling anyone with your b.s.
quote:
And if you think I'm a right winger, you are sorely mistaken.
liar quote:
hope an enemy bent on our destruction can't make their way over here one day.
You sound like one of those Evangelical weak minded christian cucks who buy into everything daddy Fox News tells them.
Posted on 5/25/16 at 2:03 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:
So you are outing yourself for using the term "thinking human"? I am sure you will just try to spin this like you always do. You aren't fooling anyone with your b.s.
"Thinking-human" is a name you call someone to insult them? And that term wasn't even used in response to your comment. Looks like you outed yourself once more.
quote:
liar
Right, because everyone who disagrees with your no-solution non-sense is a right winger, right?
quote:
You sound like one of those Evangelical weak minded christian cucks who buy into everything daddy Fox News tells them.
Not really. How is stating that the radical islamic agenda is bent on the destruction of the West anything other than a fact? Do you live in a bubble? Even their governments publicly state this. Keep burying your head in the sand and singing kumbaya.
Posted on 5/27/16 at 3:00 pm to tigerdup07
quote:
and the guy that's next in line has a hard on right now.
there's no such thing as eliminating all of their leaders. the next rag head will step to the plate.
The Taliban is actually bigger now than they were before 9/11.
Posted on 5/28/16 at 9:34 am to TT9
quote:
To the greatest military in the world doing work.
The greatest military in the world can't in 15 years beat a band of thugs.
Who is still buying this war on terrorism bullshite?
Posted on 5/28/16 at 9:40 am to GeeOH
quote:This.
The Taliban? meh.......just meh
We Americans were bored with the Taliban almost immediately. That's why the new-improved boogeyman, Al Qaeda, needed to be brought forward.
Of course, we Americans have the attention span of a tsetse fly and eventually the newest-and-most-improved boogeyman, ISIS, was needed to be trotted out.
You know, just to keep America interested.
Posted on 5/28/16 at 9:43 am to GnashRebel
quote:Who said propaganda doesn't work?
Unfortunately Afghanistan is a tough nut to crack. People have forgotten now why we went in originally but the fear is that if you pull out you leave situation that will have the same outcome as it previously has. Additionally, we encouraged the Afghans to stand up and keep the real enemy (terrorists) from setting up camp again as they did under the Taliban. Do we abandon our allies there now? Just saying it is a tough situation.
The theory is:
1. You kill their leader you cause disruption to their operations and make them less effective. You also drive them further underground which makes it harder to operate. This is probably not the most important thing.
2. Taliban leaders are like any group. They don't all agree on things. This guy was extremely against brokering a peace deal so hopefully the next man up will be more amenable to the idea.
3. Speaking of the next guy, he may not want to catch a missile to the brain so he may be encouraged to play nice.
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