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re: Interesting article on poverty in Appalachia
Posted on 1/19/14 at 1:58 pm to deeprig9
Posted on 1/19/14 at 1:58 pm to deeprig9
quote:
Its called a "brain drain"
It's a fairly natural occurrence. Not sure why people want to make living in an unsustainable area more attractive. There are hundreds or thousands of deserved parts of the US where the ability to make a living disappeared, and so did the people.
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Posted on 1/19/14 at 2:06 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
It's a fairly natural occurrence. Not sure why people want to make living in an unsustainable area more attractive. There are hundreds or thousands of deserved parts of the US where the ability to make a living disappeared, and so did the people.
It's why so many people in the middle east are batshit crazy.. The intelligent ones get the hell out and are engineers in England and America, and not being racist, own 7-11's which is very profitable and feeds their entrepreneurial spirit that is very deep in their culture.
Dubai and Abu Dhabi are doing a very good job of keeping their smart people in-house.
Posted on 1/19/14 at 2:23 pm to deeprig9
quote:
Dubai and Abu Dhabi are doing a very good job of keeping their smart people in-house.
Along with a hell of a lot of well educated expats.
Posted on 1/19/14 at 3:16 pm to CatFan81
quote:
Along with a hell of a lot of well educated expats.
My father in law was one of them, I had the privilege of taking a trip there on his dime. It's a very nice place. They are doing it right.
If you are a native, the government pays for you to go to college in England, then you come back, you are guaranteed a job and oil dividends (all oil owned by gov) so an educated person has no real financial or political incentive to "flee".
They import migrant workers from India to do all the menial labor there, so no native ever has to work menial jobs paycheck to paycheck.
Love Allah, follow the ten commandments, get your check.
This post was edited on 1/19/14 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 1/19/14 at 4:57 pm to TRUERockyTop
quote:
ehhhh mixed together
Come on man, they are not having coitus amongst blood relatives? I don't believe that. Not in 2014.
Posted on 1/19/14 at 5:17 pm to deeprig9
quote:
Dubai and Abu Dhabi are doing a very good job of keeping their smart people in-house.
So is Mexico. They're keeping the brains of their society and sending the drains on their economy to the U. S.
Posted on 1/19/14 at 6:54 pm to bamagreycoat
quote:
Come on man, they are not having coitus amongst blood relatives? I don't believe that. Not in 2014.
Unfortunately you should. It happens. Had a 6 year old in a facility I worked in a few years back that was a direct result of Eastern Kentucky incest. And had developmental issues as a result.
Posted on 1/19/14 at 9:21 pm to diddydirtyAubie
I'll clarify.
I believe choosing to do your good work, any good work is commendable, however tourists often create havoc in local economies by creating psuedo markets and beggar culture rather than instilling the traits and skills needed to be self sustaining.
The governments of these countries are terribly corrupt and true change requires long term investments and commitments not week long camp outs and safaris. When people are starving, have no electricity, undrinkable water, populations ravaged with disease they need more than a feel good myth of there being everlasting life in some ambiguous place in the sky.
They need technology, sustainable living practices, skills to improve their communities, conflict resolution, improved health care and infrastructure.
Gideon bibles will only teach them to accept this life and endure until they can reach a better place in death.
Soooooo help the family down the street, or the homeless guy on the corner, the meth head that is stealing in the neighborhood, or the kid that's being molested and can't escape. Maybe my compassion or lack of it is misguided but I don't understand why ignoring what's under your nose is OK.
I believe choosing to do your good work, any good work is commendable, however tourists often create havoc in local economies by creating psuedo markets and beggar culture rather than instilling the traits and skills needed to be self sustaining.
The governments of these countries are terribly corrupt and true change requires long term investments and commitments not week long camp outs and safaris. When people are starving, have no electricity, undrinkable water, populations ravaged with disease they need more than a feel good myth of there being everlasting life in some ambiguous place in the sky.
They need technology, sustainable living practices, skills to improve their communities, conflict resolution, improved health care and infrastructure.
Gideon bibles will only teach them to accept this life and endure until they can reach a better place in death.
Soooooo help the family down the street, or the homeless guy on the corner, the meth head that is stealing in the neighborhood, or the kid that's being molested and can't escape. Maybe my compassion or lack of it is misguided but I don't understand why ignoring what's under your nose is OK.
Posted on 1/19/14 at 9:33 pm to CtotheVrzrbck
quote:
more than a feel good myth of there being everlasting life in some ambiguous place in the sky.
so what you're saying is that you're an atheist and have no understanding of the bible and why people in church go overseas on mission trips. have a nice day.
Posted on 1/19/14 at 10:03 pm to CtotheVrzrbck
quote:
This is why I rage at Missionary trips to Mexico, Africa, Central America and have zero faith in the churches that I grew up in and have family and friends that pastor them.
frick raising money for Africa when there's people living in shacks with no running water, hollowed out school buses, and barely standing trailers just down the road. Our own people are shut out of proper healthcare and dental care, access to the internet, access to education, high tech training or even advanced skills training, and then to even be able to get an entry level job at 1 of the 3 Fortune 500 companies in NW Arkansas, they have to drive an hour to hour and a half each way.
There are some real core problems in Rural America, and the price of land, equipment, fuel, labor, and transportation locks them out of even attempting to use the one resource they have available to them living off the land.
I hear ya. I think a lot of the problem lies in the fact that Americans who've never set foot in these areas have no idea just how bad it is. A lot of people think they know what poor is -- they judge by what they've seen in their towns. But Appalachia is indeed as bad as some of the worst Indian Reservations, parts of the Delta, and inner city ghettos. But just like other places that suffer poverty at this level -- out of sight out of mind seems to rule.
A lot of people would have their image of America shattered if they saw just how bad things are. Most have no clue.
As to leaving... as with ghettos, Indian Reservations and other spots many are simply too poor to leave and even if they did leave they wouldn't walk into a land of opportunity. No one's going to hire someone who can't read and being away from family makes life even more expensive.
It's a sorry situation that we've abandoned our own citizens and that most have no clue about what living conditions are really like.
Posted on 1/19/14 at 10:22 pm to Prof
It might be time to implement a solution.
Posted on 1/19/14 at 10:46 pm to BluegrassBelle
quote:
Unfortunately you should. It happens. Had a 6 year old in a facility I worked in a few years back that was a direct result of Eastern Kentucky incest. And had developmental issues as a result.
The problem is less first degree relative coitus than the fact that these families have been in the same area for generations with no new blood coming in. You'll find the Smiths, Joneses, Jacksons, Walters, all marrying then stop for a generation or two and the families they married out to doing the same but eventually those families marry again because they're not family anymore but they don't realize they share genes due to small population size. After a while these families start to share genes that would be diluted in other places due to population. However, the relatedness of so many families swapping genes in a relatively small population makes certain bad genes more likely to occur because several families are now carrying that gene even if they're no longer related enough to matter legally, culturally, or medically (if they were in another place with a larger population group that is).
However first degree incest has never been any different in the mountains than elsewhere -- not even in the old days. The same issues arise in European royalty (a few families who are all related to one another via various marriages and who've all married in to different royal families at different times but who aren't related enough anymore to where it should matter). The trouble is some genes require doubles and you increase the likelihood if there's a long history of marriage between a smaller genetic pool despite not being related enough to count. Even so, it's still quite rare for even the worst cases of of repeated 1st degree relative consanguinity to produce serious defects. It happens but mostly among populations known to carry specific genes that can cause defects.
Posted on 1/19/14 at 10:55 pm to deeprig9
quote:
It might be time to implement a solution.
But how? There have only been a handful of people who've ever been able to truly portray poverty in these areas without exploiting or sensationalizing those who are born into these areas. And before people will take action they do need to know about it. I'd love nothing more than to see the grinding poverty of the Delta, the Rez's, the ghettos, Appalachia etc. dealt with seriously. I DO believe it can be fixed if we set our minds to it -- we did send a man to the moon after all.
I'm open to anything and everything in the way of ideas. No American should have to live the way the people of these forgotten areas have to.
I really do think it would cost little to fix but in terms of getting the general public to truly understand and so set their minds to solving things I'm at a loss for how we spark that fire.
Posted on 1/19/14 at 11:26 pm to CtotheVrzrbck
Then you don't know what you are talking about and you need to stop raging.
There are no poor people in America - not compared to the poor that I have seen in the 3rd world countries I have been in.
Get educated and travel some and you won't be so mad.
And, any church worth anything does both local and global missions.
There are no poor people in America - not compared to the poor that I have seen in the 3rd world countries I have been in.
Get educated and travel some and you won't be so mad.
And, any church worth anything does both local and global missions.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 12:04 am to AlaTiger
quote:
Then you don't know what you are talking about and you need to stop raging.
There are no poor people in America - not compared to the poor that I have seen in the 3rd world countries I have been in.
I wish you right but that's just not reality. For most poor Americans, your summation is correct but for those in Appalachia and other forgotten zones you're dead wrong. Consider yourself lucky that you've never seen the American poverty we're talking about. It will rip your heart out in ways African and South American poverty can't because we have no excuses, no famine, no nationwide impoverishment, just blindness and denial.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 8:53 am to BluegrassBelle
Decent article, thanks for sharing. I'm a fan of NPR.
Having grown up in the Appalachians, this article brings about fair points. There is still a national stigma that people from the region are poor and uneducated. I remember being on a school trip to NYC in 8th grade, and we met some girls from CT that were in shock that we had shoes, seriously.
There are trashy types from there, just like anywhere else. To me, there's a magic about the Appalachians that I haven't seen anywhere else. Some of the best people I've met in this world were from there. But, there are still parts where I wouldn't want to be without knowing somebody for fear of getting shot from stumbling on somebody's pot patch, still, or meth lab. There are some rough areas.
Having grown up in the Appalachians, this article brings about fair points. There is still a national stigma that people from the region are poor and uneducated. I remember being on a school trip to NYC in 8th grade, and we met some girls from CT that were in shock that we had shoes, seriously.
There are trashy types from there, just like anywhere else. To me, there's a magic about the Appalachians that I haven't seen anywhere else. Some of the best people I've met in this world were from there. But, there are still parts where I wouldn't want to be without knowing somebody for fear of getting shot from stumbling on somebody's pot patch, still, or meth lab. There are some rough areas.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 10:43 am to Prof
I think the whole "mountain folk" not having marriage options outside their clan is way overplayed.
Nobody had access to easy transportation 120 years go, so by that standard everybody is inbred, everywhere on the planet.
My grandfather was from one of the most rural mountain areas of western Arkansas. In the 1920s, he married a girl born in Sherman, TX and moved her back home. Most of his brothers did something similar, marrying women from Oklahoma, Kansas, or from other places more than a few counties away. In fact, often the young people back then took trips for the express purpose of finding a spouse, and the most important standard for them was common religious beliefs.
All societies have been aware of the need to mix with other tribes for a long time.
Nobody had access to easy transportation 120 years go, so by that standard everybody is inbred, everywhere on the planet.
My grandfather was from one of the most rural mountain areas of western Arkansas. In the 1920s, he married a girl born in Sherman, TX and moved her back home. Most of his brothers did something similar, marrying women from Oklahoma, Kansas, or from other places more than a few counties away. In fact, often the young people back then took trips for the express purpose of finding a spouse, and the most important standard for them was common religious beliefs.
All societies have been aware of the need to mix with other tribes for a long time.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 12:22 pm to Prof
North Carolina was practicing eugenics up until the 60's.
Posted on 1/20/14 at 2:49 pm to wmr
quote:
I think the whole "mountain folk" not having marriage options outside their clan is way overplayed.
Nobody had access to easy transportation 120 years go, so by that standard everybody is inbred, everywhere on the planet.
My grandfather was from one of the most rural mountain areas of western Arkansas. In the 1920s, he married a girl born in Sherman, TX and moved her back home. Most of his brothers did something similar, marrying women from Oklahoma, Kansas, or from other places more than a few counties away. In fact, often the young people back then took trips for the express purpose of finding a spouse, and the most important standard for them was common religious beliefs.
All societies have been aware of the need to mix with other tribes for a long time.
It is. What you find is the Jones marrying the Smiths then marrying the Richardsons then the Wilsons. Eventually, all those families are related somehow if you go back far enough but not in any creepy sense.
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