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re: Indiana Religious Freedom Bill
Posted on 3/26/15 at 7:39 pm to Kentucker
Posted on 3/26/15 at 7:39 pm to Kentucker
quote:
TeLaFaWx, I'm so glad you're in this thread. You do a great job of explaining that which is hard to understand for some.
I find it difficult to think that so many people accept the idea of "private" business as being a personal right. They see the current religious discrimination against gays as okay but don't see the big picture which would have to include the acceptance of discrimination by anyone against anyone else.
Some want religious "freedom" to extend into every facet of American life. Our nation's founders and the Constitution they forged laid out the parameters for religious practice in the U. S.
No religion can be part of our various governments, for example. Nor can religious laws supersede a civil system of rules. It is the latter that proponents of religious "freedom" want to accomplish.
They want to override anti-discriminatory civil laws with laws that grant them the right to selectively provide services to the public based on whom they feel are in concert with their religious beliefs.
Meh. I mean I used to not care about gay rights and I used to be of the belief that private individuals can do whatever they want who cares. As I've gotten older I think I've grown wiser. A culture of homophobia and bigotry leads to hate and teen suicides among gays being the highest demographic in this country. I just don't think extending discrimination laws to gays would destroy or undermine the free market any more than Civil Rights legislation did. Yeah, Michael Sam sticking his tongue down some dudes throat was a bit shocking, and it is a bit weird, but whatever. If that made just one kid out there a little bit more accepting of himself, then my momentary discomfort was 100% justifiable.
I know this turns in to a religious argument, but I don't think most anti-homosexuals are out there are actually any more die hard Deuteronomy defenders than anyone else. They probably eat bacon too, and that's only a few lines away. They are just uncomfortable with homosexuality. People used to be uncomfortable with a black man kissing a white woman in the same way. I read something today that 4% of America thought it was okay for whites to marry non-whites in 1958. They'll get over it eventually. They are just using this religion thing as their last resort. As if someone's nature and that person's normal participation in life somehow violates their way of life. We don't need a society that promotes that concept in any form or fashion, IMO.
1
Posted on 3/26/15 at 7:41 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
"We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service To Anyone" Unless you are doing it based race, color, religion, or national origin.
How does sexual preference fit in there?
Posted on 3/26/15 at 7:45 pm to Alahunter
quote:
How does sexual preference fit in there?
It currently doesn't unless your religion believes that the gays can marry I suppose.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 7:54 pm to Alahunter
quote:
How does sexual preference fit in there?
Right now, it does not fit. If you take it in context of excluding others based on superficial reasons and infringing upon their civil liberties, homosexuality falls right in line with the a fore mentioned exceptions.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 7:58 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
And I know being gay doesn't fall under the Civil Rights Act, but I bet it soon will. Gays will be a protected class sooner or later, and they are in certain states in certain scenarios.
Can I declare "hobos" a protected class?
Posted on 3/26/15 at 7:59 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
A culture of homophobia and bigotry leads to hate and teen suicides among gays being the highest demographic in this country.
Link?
Another liberal fact that's just made up.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 7:59 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
Indiana Religious Freedom Bill
Agree with this. It's a win for free enterprise. The obvious recent issue is a Christian owned business should not have to provide services for gay patrons that conflict with his/her religious convictions. And likewise if a gay owned business doesn't want to provide services to Christians then fine and dandy.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 8:04 pm to the808bass
quote:
Link?
To gay teens committing suicide? You don't think you could google that yourself?
Posted on 3/26/15 at 8:05 pm to davesdawgs
quote:
And likewise if a gay owned business doesn't want to provide services to Christians then fine and dandy.
False.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 8:06 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
How does sexual preference fit in there? It currently doesn't unless your religion believes that the gays can marry I suppose.
So then.. if you're an atheist and just believe homosexuality is immoral.. you're in the clear?
Posted on 3/26/15 at 8:08 pm to Alahunter
quote:
So then.. if you're an atheist and just believe homosexuality is immoral.. you're in the clear?
No I mean you're in the clear either way in most states. I'm just saying if the gays just made a church where gay marriage was in the doctrine, then they'd be in the clear.
And why would someone believe that homosexuality was immoral if they weren't religious?
Posted on 3/26/15 at 8:09 pm to TeLeFaWx
Posted on 3/26/15 at 8:11 pm to TeLeFaWx
quote:
And why would someone believe that homosexuality was immoral if they weren't religious?
So nonreligious individuals have no morals?
Posted on 3/26/15 at 8:13 pm to The Spleen
quote:
My gay clients are some of my best ones. Pay on time, rarely complain, etc. Not sure why a business wouldn't want to do business with them.
So lemme get this right.
Your fellow gays, they are better clients than your heterosexual clients ... because they are gay.
That's what you are claiming you gender racist/bigoted frick ... correct?
Posted on 3/26/15 at 8:16 pm to the808bass
quote:
I fully expect you to ignore the facts and continue to believe your orthodoxy.
What facts were presented in that article?
Posted on 3/26/15 at 8:21 pm to scrooster
quote:
Your fellow gays, they are better clients than your heterosexual clients ... because they are gay.
They are statistically better property owners. Homo-gentrification and what not has been seen in almost every major city in the country. They generally don't have kids so there is less damage to the houses, more disposable income because of less kids, and an eye for making things fabulous.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 8:25 pm to TeLeFaWx
That the commonly stated stat of teen gay suicides are at X% is incorrect and based on faulty reasoning.
Here's more:
LINK
Ritch Savin Williams has done a bit of work in this area. He is trying to say gay teens can be good now, so his work isn't polemical. But again, you will hold on to your article of faith.
Here's more:
LINK
Ritch Savin Williams has done a bit of work in this area. He is trying to say gay teens can be good now, so his work isn't polemical. But again, you will hold on to your article of faith.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 8:51 pm to 5thTiger
quote:It's illegal, it doesn't matter what kind of hospital. If it's an emergency dept they go to, the hospital is required to screen for a medical emergency and, if there is an emergency, treat them or transfer them to a higher level center that can care for them. If you don't, you can lose your Medicare contract (would cripple basically any hospital) and get up to a $50k fine for the hospital and the physician per event.
Just a hypothetical. Say a gay couple is injured by a vehicle and they are brought to a private hospital. If the doctor is whatever religion, he can decide that he will not treat the couple and they die from wounds.
Now, I know doctors have an oath or whatever, but it isn't legally binding (so far as I know in a private practice).
Is this ok?
And you're right, the Hippocratic oath isn't legally binding, but EMTALA is
Posted on 3/26/15 at 9:03 pm to the808bass
Why do you care so much about the "truth" of the narrative? So what if some facts are exaggerated by people looking for acceptance for who they are?
How will it effect your life in anyway?
I just don't understand your investment in it.
How will it effect your life in anyway?
I just don't understand your investment in it.
Posted on 3/26/15 at 9:08 pm to the808bass
If a business wants to decline an opportunity to make revenue, then they should have that right. Forcing businesses to take on new business is not exactly democratic in nature. If a buttpirate can't get a cake made at one place, just go to another fricking bakery, for crying out loud. The Colorado and Oregon stories are disturbing because the state's are punishing these business owners for doing what they did. The freedom to practice religion of choice is just being shite on because they were "insensitive".
Wrong.
The concept of marriage in multiple Christian religions clearly define it as a man and a woman, not through same-sex individuals. It's not like these people made it up to discriminate purposely. It's a valid belief of choice but slowly liberally run states treat the constitution like toilet paper, pretending certain amendments are morally wrong, outdated, or invalid to everyday life. Glad to see Indiana taking a stand for this.
Wrong.
The concept of marriage in multiple Christian religions clearly define it as a man and a woman, not through same-sex individuals. It's not like these people made it up to discriminate purposely. It's a valid belief of choice but slowly liberally run states treat the constitution like toilet paper, pretending certain amendments are morally wrong, outdated, or invalid to everyday life. Glad to see Indiana taking a stand for this.
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