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re: How I Would Have Won as a Democrat in Alabama

Posted on 11/5/14 at 12:07 pm to
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

I don't get the Carson love at all. He's a smart guy and brown, but I haven't seen much from him to make me think he's capable enough to get a nomination much less have a shot at the WH. Sure he plays well to the TP reactionaries, but that really isn't enough


I don't think he'll get the nomination, but he could influence who does get it, with the support he gets. I think he's a smart guy, but naïve in the field of politics. I think when he first made big news, he was sincere in what he said, but I think the popularity went to his head a bit. He's got to have some substance if he wants do be more than a spoiler for someone else.

Agree about Jeb. And I hate it. Hate it, hate it, hate it with a passion. I'm so thoroughly sick and disgusted of establishment politicians on the R side. Today's regular joe Republican are what Dem's used to be in the 90's. Everything has shifted to the left and now what was once regular conservatives have been branded extremists.

I'm really not excited about any of them. If I had my choice, I would merge Rand and Cruz into one person. I really like a lot of what Rand says, but I'm still not sold on his foreign policy and need to hear more. I like Cruz, but fear his public stances and twitter comments are too "extreme" for mainstream. In the end, I guess I simply feel the country has shifted too far to the left for me to be satisfied or hopeful that things will be better in the future. I just keep seeing more entitlements, more taxes, spending and less responsibility in the future. I would gladly be wrong, but fear I'm not.
Posted by Duke
Twin Lakes, CO
Member since Jan 2008
35610 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 12:20 pm to
quote:


I don't think he'll get the nomination, but he could influence who does get it, with the support he gets. I think he's a smart guy, but naïve in the field of politics. I think when he first made big news, he was sincere in what he said, but I think the popularity went to his head a bit. He's got to have some substance if he wants do be more than a spoiler for someone else.


Certainly jives with my impression of him. He's going to be fighting with Cruz and to some large degree Paul for the same votes. I see the potential for him to bow out and consolidate support behind one of them.

quote:


Agree about Jeb. And I hate it. Hate it, hate it, hate it with a passion. I'm so thoroughly sick and disgusted of establishment politicians on the R side. Today's regular joe Republican are what Dem's used to be in the 90's. Everything has shifted to the left and now what was once regular conservatives have been branded extremists.


We certainly are looking at this from two different perspectives. Yes he will not satisfy your need for a more conservative candidate, but he's not a bad selection. He's going to get shocked and awed on his right from every other person in the field. I don't care what his warchest looks like, that's going to be tough to survive without too much damage.

quote:

I'm really not excited about any of them. If I had my choice, I would merge Rand and Cruz into one person. I really like a lot of what Rand says, but I'm still not sold on his foreign policy and need to hear more. I like Cruz, but fear his public stances and twitter comments are too "extreme" for mainstream.


I think you'd see a more libertarian Cruz if he didn't have to deal with Rand. He knows he won't get the staunch libertarians and thus is trying to gobble up the holy rollers and TP types to bolster his support imo. I don't believe for a second he's quite as "extreme" as the role he's playing right now. To me, he's a Republican Frank Underwood without the murdery bisexual stuff

quote:

In the end, I guess I simply feel the country has shifted too far to the left for me to be satisfied or hopeful that things will be better in the future. I just keep seeing more entitlements, more taxes, spending and less responsibility in the future. I would gladly be wrong, but fear I'm not.


How does it feel to be old?

From my perspective we've gone too far right and left. There's not enough pragmatic voices out there and we get pulled sharply one way or the other. There are unique challenges ahead with a rapidly changing economy from globalization and the fruits of the tech boom. Who knows where political philosophy will be 25 years from now?
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 12:28 pm to
quote:

How does it feel to be old?




quote:

From my perspective we've gone too far right and left. There's not enough pragmatic voices out there and we get pulled sharply one way or the other


No doubt there is polarization out there from both sides. But comparatively, when Newt was able to work with Clinton and before that, Reagan with O'Neill... there were stark differences in parties. The problem now, as I see it.. is that the left will not compromise while the right capitulates and has no backbone. Overall, progressive agenda's have ruled the day for quite a number of years.

quote:

Who knows where political philosophy will be 25 years from now?


Ever see V for Vendetta?





This post was edited on 11/5/14 at 12:29 pm
Posted by The Spleen
Member since Dec 2010
38865 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 12:34 pm to
One interesting Dem name I've seen mentioned a few times is Bernie Sanders. I think he has absolutely no shot, but it would be funny to see him follow Obama. Those that lambaste Obama for being a Socialist would lose their minds.


If it's another Bush vs. Clonton election, I'm moving to Canada.
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55446 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 1:26 pm to
I no longer vote in Alabama (or vote at all, really) but I saw a few campaign ads when I've been home for Bama games. The only thing Griffith talked about that appealed to me was an education lottery. It's a shame that Alabamians spend their retard money on funds that send kids from TN, GA, and FL to college.
Posted by bbvdd
Memphis, TN
Member since Jun 2009
24977 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

I'm also here to fight FOR YOU and NOT AGAINST Obama" if I previously supported Obama policies show how those policies benefited my constituency vs pretending they didn't exist


What policies has he brought that have benefited anyone other than the Obama phone?

Name one.
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15712 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 1:54 pm to
quote:

If it's another Bush vs. Clonton election, I'm moving to Canada.


Good luck with that.

For some crazy reason they think it is important to restrict and review the people they let come into and live in their country so unless you've got a needed skill, you probably won't get in. According to Wiki, they let fewer than 9,000 Americans migrate in 2011 and persons born in America make up less than 1% of their population.

I guess you could claim political refugee status, but that's going to be a tough road too. Your best bet is to head south and see if StrawsDrawnAtRandom will let you bunk with him.
Posted by Duke
Twin Lakes, CO
Member since Jan 2008
35610 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 1:59 pm to
quote:



No doubt there is polarization out there from both sides. But comparatively, when Newt was able to work with Clinton and before that, Reagan with O'Neill... there were stark differences in parties. The problem now, as I see it.. is that the left will not compromise while the right capitulates and has no backbone. Overall, progressive agenda's have ruled the day for quite a number of years.


Clinton and Reagan compared to Obama. Obama has been politically naive and too unwilling to work with the Republicans in congress. Tip O'Neill and Newt as compared to Boehner. I see two strong leaders who could keep their party in line and make things work. Our current speaker? Not exactly his strong suit. It's certainly a function of who's leading the respective parties at the negotiating table.

You couple that with highly partisan districts (blame everyone) and there's no win in working things out. Each side has to go home to an unreasonable electorate. The echo chamber feeds its self.

I do think there are obvious differences in the two parties, but I get how they can look the same from your perspective way out there in right field. Corporate Taxation. Individual tax rates. Social programs. Immigration. Obamacare. The two parties have a noticeable difference in approach to all of those issues. Neither want a workable solution though, better to keep us fighting and hide their corruption in boring bills.

quote:


Ever see V for Vendetta?


What I most appreciate about you is your optimism for the future.

Posted by FairhopeTider
Fairhope, Alabama
Member since May 2012
20762 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 2:53 pm to
The Democrats in Alabama really shot themselves in the foot in 2010 by nominating Sparks instead of Davis. Davis could've been a unifying figure in the party but they held his vote against Obamacare against him even though he only voted against it so he could win the general election.

The AL Dems are a mess at a state wide level. They won't win anything until they clean that mess up. Also, nominating squids like Joe Hubbard won't help their cause either.

Politics in this state suck. Tom Parker is a prime example of how you can absolutely suck at your job but it won't matter come Election Day because he has an "R" next to his name.
Posted by FairhopeTider
Fairhope, Alabama
Member since May 2012
20762 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

Byrne should be Gov now and would be if not for Bentley's covert alliance with AEA but his future's probably in DC now. Probably in the senate.


This will sound silly, but Bentley wouldn't be governor if that Tim James/Nick Saban rumor wouldn't have surfaced. That cost James the primary. Byrne ran an absolutely terrible campaign for the runoff. It was mindblowing how he wasted his time & money.

Byrne-Davis would've been an interesting matchup.
Posted by JustGetItRight
Member since Jan 2012
15712 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

Byrne ran an absolutely terrible campaign for the runoff


I've got to disagree. The "Conservative Coalition for Alabama" - which was a front for AEA is what got Bentley the nomination. Byrne was looking pretty good until they unleased a bunch of blatantly false ads.

Here's what al.com found out about the arrangement after the election was over.

Edited to add - I've met Artur Davis. I don't agree with him on a lot of political issues, but I think he is a decent and honest man - which may be why the (D) leadership at the time sought to run him off.
This post was edited on 11/5/14 at 3:32 pm
Posted by FairhopeTider
Fairhope, Alabama
Member since May 2012
20762 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 3:52 pm to
I'm talking from a strategy standpoint, Byrne was not agressive enough after the Primary. Bentley & James wasted two weeks on recounts and Bently was extremely vulnerable at the time because he wasn't going to fire back. Byrne could've gone scorched Earth.

That said, Bentley's not a bad governor...especially when you consider we could have a whole lot worse (Roy Moore).

Davis could've been a shining star for the Democratic Party in Alabama. Now he's looking into possibly running for mayor in Montgomery.
Posted by undecided
Member since May 2012
15492 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 3:59 pm to
quote:

Corey Booker

Has not really stood out too me. Hillary has to run a more discipline primary campaign than she did in 2008. They looked like amateurs. She's going to have to bridge the gap between the young-old African-American dems. The old guard sticks with her out of loyalty to Bill but the young guard is not very receptive. They defected for Barrack in 2008 and the Clinton's have never been able to completely win them back. If she can do this she'll emerge from primary season with an excited base who'll go to bat for her. However, I have my doubts this will happen.
quote:

That's far from a certainty. He's got the buzz right now, but Ted Cruz is looking to be a direct challenger for his votes in a primary. Make no mistake, Cruz is young and overplayed his hand in the shutdown but the dude is bright. He's a formidable challenge. Jeb Bush will be very very well funded and he's actually pretty good at this politics thing. Who knows who else will be in the field. Christie? Rubio? Huckabee? Carson?

For some reason, I think Rand Paul would be the best opposition to Hillary. Imagine Hillary on standing at a debate next to Paul. You have a young, all-American boy type and then you have your mom/grandma? Of course it would take more than appearance but I think she would give him the toughest race out of the field.

The Clinton Machine (or what's left of it) would feast on Ted Cruz, Rubio, and God Bless Huckabee. Carson, I'm not that familiar with. Jeb Bush would be interesting but I think is it came down to a Clinton vs Bush. Clinton would win 9-10 times.
This post was edited on 11/5/14 at 4:08 pm
Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

Our current speaker? Not exactly his strong suit


I know of no one that likes Boehner from the R side. He's one of the establishment types I railed against that is a large part of the problem.

quote:

Clinton and Reagan compared to Obama. Obama has been politically naive and too unwilling to work with the Republicans in congress. Tip O'Neill and Newt as compared to Boehner. I see two strong leaders who could keep their party in line and make things work. Our current speaker? Not exactly his strong suit. It's certainly a function of who's leading the respective parties at the negotiating table. You couple that with highly partisan districts (blame everyone) and there's no win in working things out. Each side has to go home to an unreasonable electorate. The echo chamber feeds its self. I do think there are obvious differences in the two parties, but I get how they can look the same from your perspective way out there in right field. Corporate Taxation. Individual tax rates. Social programs. Immigration. Obamacare. The two parties have a noticeable difference in approach to all of those issues


They're a lot closer than they used to be and the "conservative" party is spineless to seriously attempt to change things. Give it another decade or two, and you'll see R's with the same views as D's now. It will continue towards the left, until it's unsustainable. And while they may want to approach things different, all they really want, is to transfer those funds to their own districts and pet projects.

quote:

Neither want a workable solution though, better to keep us fighting and hide their corruption in boring bills.


Yep.. which is why I believe D=R and R=D at this point. Selling crack or selling heroin. Not really a difference.

quote:

What I most appreciate about you is your optimism for the future





I had it in 1994. Then came the last 20 yrs, some life experience, becoming a small business owner and seeing how people are punished for trying to succeed on their own merits, through over regulation and ridiculous taxes/licenses . Now I'm a realist.
Posted by undecided
Member since May 2012
15492 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

Edited to add - I've met Artur Davis. I don't agree with him on a lot of political issues, but I think he is a decent and honest man - which may be why the (D) leadership at the time sought to run him off.

No one like Artur and he alienated his base by voting against Obamacare. He's a prime example of Southern Dems attempting to appeal the opposition vs be mindful of the constituency that voted you in. His failed attempt to jump to the Republican Party and win in another state revealed his true nature.

Alabamians may not all be Rhodes Scholars but they're not complete idiots either. Southern Dems got passes for a long time being Republican light but 2012 changed that. They haven't been able to find an identity since
Posted by Duke
Twin Lakes, CO
Member since Jan 2008
35610 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 4:40 pm to
Hillary's problem in my estimation is that she isn't a natural politician. She's got the name and the campaign apparatus to win some races, but President is a different ballgame. She's not terribly likeable and any attempts to be come off as phony. She's certainly a smart woman but I think she does better behind the scenes. Hillary just isn't charismatic enough.

quote:


The Clinton Machine (or what's left of it) would feast on Ted Cruz, Rubio, and God Bless Huckabee. Carson, I'm not that familiar with. Jeb Bush would be interesting but I think is it came down to a Clinton vs Bush. Clinton would win 9-10 times.


They'd do work on Rubio, Carson, and Huckabee without a doubt. They aren't ready for primetime. Bush is ready, but he would struggle against the memory of his brother while Hillary would have the found memories of Bill to use.

Cruz is probably a little young, but every time I hear the guy talk I think he has "it". I'm not sure he's got the discipline and while he's got a very quick wit, that's the sort of trait that makes you think you can talk your way out of and around anything. He'd likely slip up.

Paul would be the most interesting. He could get after her from the left and right. Draw a clear line between her hawk positions and his isolationist stances. His problem will be it's going to be easy to cast him as a fringe kook. His dad's history will do nothing to change that.

It's two years out and a lot can change...
Posted by Ted2010
Member since Oct 2010
38958 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 4:54 pm to
A Democrat was not winning a state wide office yesterday.
Posted by OlGrandad
Member since Oct 2009
3494 posts
Posted on 11/5/14 at 5:12 pm to
Four counties in Alabama that vote democrat:


quote:

According to AL.com: “As of March, Greene, Hale, Lowndes and Macon counties had more active, registered voters than what the census estimated as their 18-and-older population in 2012.”

LINK
Posted by Chuck Barris
Member since Apr 2013
2146 posts
Posted on 11/6/14 at 5:13 pm to
A dead cat could become governor in Alabama as long as it had an R by its name on the ballot. On the plus side, it would be equally as effective a leader as Bentley is while probably having an amusing name, like Governor Snugglekisses.
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