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re: Do you believe in Evolution?
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:02 am to Grievous Angel
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:02 am to Grievous Angel
God of the gaps?
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Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:04 am to Grievous Angel
That's my stance, but I respect the ability to reconcile science with belief in God.
I just cant deny that history indicates that "God" is nothing more than what we don't understand.
I just cant deny that history indicates that "God" is nothing more than what we don't understand.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:05 am to Roger Klarvin
corr blimey mate bloody hell
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:05 am to KSGamecock
quote:
God of the gaps?
I do not understand the words that are coming out of your mouf.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:06 am to Roger Klarvin
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That's my stance, but I respect the ability to reconcile science with belief in God
I'm pretty much still there. It's hard to accept that existence is just some random thing.
It's easy to reject this notion that we're a few thousand years old, with the Creator so concerned with life on Earth.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:07 am to Grievous Angel
quote:
Sometimes I think "God" is that big gap we reserve for the things we do not yet (and probably will never) understand.
I can respect that view.
As for me, I use science to understand things. If I don't understand them, I know that given enough time and enough test we will one day understand.
I use God for moral and ethical guidance and most importantly Salvation.
I'm no scientist though….or a theologian either. I just shite out stuff on a keyboard mostly.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:09 am to KyleOrtonsMustache
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I just shite out stuff on a keyboard mostly.
I'm not a theologian. I just play one on TV.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:12 am to Grievous Angel
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I'm not a theologian. I just play one on TV.
That's the best kind of theologian.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:15 am to Grievous Angel
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with the Creator so concerned with life on Earth.
This is a key point.
It is impossible to disprove the idea of God, but the evidence is heavily against a benevolent deity who cares about the well being of humanity. Certain attributes some people give to God are capable of being argued for or against using evidence.
If a benevolent, all-loving deity exists we would expect certain things about the universe to be true that simply are not. All the rationalizations about free will and man's rebellion are just that, rationalizations. A truly benevolent God cannot exist in the same universe as starvation, molestation, murder, influenza and ebola.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:20 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
This is a key point.
It is impossible to disprove the idea of God, but the evidence is heavily against a benevolent deity who cares about the well being of humanity. Certain attributes some people give to God are capable of being argued for or against using evidence.
If a benevolent, all-loving deity exists we would expect certain things about the universe to be true that simply are not. All the rationalizations about free will and man's rebellion are just that, rationalizations. A truly benevolent God cannot exist in the same universe as starvation, molestation, murder, influenza and ebola.
Well, that's a whole different point. But equally valid, and I agree.
My point was the notion that the story as presented by most theology has Earth as its center. We now know that Earth isn't the center of anything, but a spec of dust in the universe. A story told of the "creation of the everything" with Earth at it's center just seems hard to swallow. If true, why bother with the rest of the universe?
This post was edited on 5/27/14 at 12:22 am
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:24 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
A truly benevolent God cannot exist in the same universe as starvation, molestation, murder, influenza and ebola.
Except that God is under no obligation to keep us from suffering. Who are we to prescribe what God should and shouldn't do?
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:26 am to Grievous Angel
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A truly benevolent God cannot exist in the same universe as starvation, molestation, murder, influenza and ebola.
Ok I'm about to get all cathartic up in this shite. As I was raised on the KJV.
THIS is the key point.
Are we a bunch of seamonkeys? A giant ant farm for God? Why would he create us just so we could have someone who would love him? And why would he make us so frail? Why build something just set up for failure? And how in the name of God is a 6 year old with Leukemia a part of God's plan?
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:28 am to Roger Klarvin
Gravity isn't a theory...
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:28 am to KyleOrtonsMustache
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Except that God is under no obligation to keep us from suffering. Who are we to prescribe what God should and shouldn't do?
I feel you. We can't fully understand "his will."
But to me he feels kinda arbitrary and unfair--and unjust.
A 6 year old with Leukemia . . this challenges my ability to believe more than anything.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:30 am to KyleOrtonsMustache
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Except that God is under no obligation to keep us from suffering.
Of course he isn't, but a benevolent God is by definition.
God may very well exist, and I have no issues with the idea of his existence, but if he does exist and he created us in any capacity than any beliefs about morality that we hold are either directly or indirectly because of him. Because of this, we must assume that God either does not care what happens to us as individuals, that his morality matches ours but he is simply incapable of helping us or that he is malevolent in nature.
A benevolent God who is also all-powerful creating benevolent beings in an inherently malevolent universe is a contradiction not logically resolvable by human consciousness.
This post was edited on 5/27/14 at 12:32 am
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:34 am to Grievous Angel
quote:
Are we a bunch of seamonkeys? A giant ant farm for God? Why would he create us just so we could have someone who would love him? And why would he make us so frail? Why build something just set up for failure? And how in the name of God is a 6 year old with Leukemia a part of God's plan?
I struggle with this as well. However, I think we want God to save us from pain and suffering. We expect a loving god to erase all the pain in the world. I expect him to erase the medical problems my 6 year old has. But, to me…that seems pretty self centered…and demanding of God.
I just play the cards I'm dealt. And sometimes, like in the case of my 6 year old…we get dealt a crappy hand. But, just because little man suffers doesn't mean God doesn't care or even love us. It just means that life sucks….for everyone….who ever lived.
Does that make God a cruel guy. I say no. I say we live in a cruel world. God gives us peace and security to deal with that world.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:34 am to Stonehog
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Gravity isn't a theory...
Without going into a convoluted explanation myself...
LINK
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So when we are scientifically discussing gravity, we can talk about the law that describes the attraction between two objects, and we can also talk about the theory that describes why the objects attract each other.
In the same way, natural selection and mutation are "laws" which define the theory of evolution. Evolution and gravity, in and of themselves, can never be "facts". That is the nature of science.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:36 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
God may very well exist, and I have no issues with the idea of his existence, but if he does exist and he created us in any capacity than any beliefs about morality that we hold are either directly or indirectly because of him. Because of this, we must assume that God either does not care what happens to us as individuals, that his morality matches ours but he is simply incapable of helping us or that he is malevolent in nature.
A benevolent God who is also all-powerful creating benevolent beings in an inherently malevolent universe is a contradiction not logically resolvable by human consciousness.
Very good stuff man. I feel like I need to write this down.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:36 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
Of course he isn't, but a benevolent God is by definition.
But with the free will we were given we threw away the world without suffering. He is benevolent but also just. The world is fallen and God has to let it be that way, humans picked it. God gave us a way to get back to a perfect creation though-The sacrifice of His Son.
Posted on 5/27/14 at 12:36 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
A benevolent God who is also all-powerful creating benevolent beings in an inherently malevolent universe is a contradiction not logically resolvable by human consciousness
I have no problem with this statement….and it's more eloquently worded than anything I could've written.
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