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Let's have a discussion about cheating
Posted on 1/20/21 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 1/20/21 at 1:22 pm
Piggybacking off a conversation I heard on the radio this morning.
I think we can all concede that every team in the conference (and maybe all of college football) probably cheats to some degree. Some are better at it than others, and some go really big.
If everyone is doing it, is this really a problem? Is there an imaginary, gentleman's agreement line where it's seen as okay, but beyond that it becomes a problem?
NLI aside, should we advocate for opening it up and letting the market dictate what these players can get from outside boosters? If they're already doing this, what would be different, except having it out in the open, without fear of punishment?
Or, if we truly did away with impermissible benefits, would the rich just get richer?
I honestly struggle with this and can see both sides of the argument. I love the amateurism of college sports, but I do wonder if that is really just a pipe dream.
Maybe we should just give up the charade and let these guys earn what they're worth, if the value of an athletic scholarship and the associated benefits aren't enough in 2021.
To be clear, I'm not talking about schools paying players - I'm referring to these kids receiving money from outside sources while attending school and playing football, basically as an added "scholarship" from a third party, like other academic students can receive.
I think we can all concede that every team in the conference (and maybe all of college football) probably cheats to some degree. Some are better at it than others, and some go really big.
If everyone is doing it, is this really a problem? Is there an imaginary, gentleman's agreement line where it's seen as okay, but beyond that it becomes a problem?
NLI aside, should we advocate for opening it up and letting the market dictate what these players can get from outside boosters? If they're already doing this, what would be different, except having it out in the open, without fear of punishment?
Or, if we truly did away with impermissible benefits, would the rich just get richer?
I honestly struggle with this and can see both sides of the argument. I love the amateurism of college sports, but I do wonder if that is really just a pipe dream.
Maybe we should just give up the charade and let these guys earn what they're worth, if the value of an athletic scholarship and the associated benefits aren't enough in 2021.
To be clear, I'm not talking about schools paying players - I'm referring to these kids receiving money from outside sources while attending school and playing football, basically as an added "scholarship" from a third party, like other academic students can receive.
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Posted on 1/20/21 at 1:24 pm to paperwasp
You cannot get sloppy.. Otherwise you are OK. Church collection plates work well.. Also jobs for family members like house sitting in Mt. Brook, etc.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 1:30 pm to paperwasp
quote:
Maybe we should just give up the charade and let these guys earn what they're worth
If that is the case there is no point in college football being associated with the actual colleges. Just make a minor league for it. If universities weren't already largely a joke for education I'd say drop scholarships entirely and get back to making productive students.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 1:41 pm to paperwasp
Everybody serious about winning has some degree of cheating or rule bending going on. It isn’t as big of money as most people think about their hated rivals but also it isn’t as innocent as most people think about their beloved program. Also, you got to parse out the things from the NCAA that can generously be called “dumb bullshite” - contact rules, recruiting visit parameters w/r/t lodging, etc - and things that are just a reality of trying to force amateurism upon a multibillion dollar industry (so also “dumb bullshite” but much more systemic).
As for the clear elephant in the room:
I’d argue anyone trying to make the connection that Pruitt from Bama thus Saban does same thing are missing the mark. Every school in the SEC wants to have the NCAA skullfrick Alabama. If Alabama was as blatantly fricking up as Tennessee, Alabama would have 5 fewer national titles right now and probably on their third coach since Saban. Alabama’s either cheating bigger but smarter (frankly unsustainable without getting caught) or just cheating as much as everyone else and nobody wants to take a Mexican standoff and turn it into a shootout.
As for the clear elephant in the room:
I’d argue anyone trying to make the connection that Pruitt from Bama thus Saban does same thing are missing the mark. Every school in the SEC wants to have the NCAA skullfrick Alabama. If Alabama was as blatantly fricking up as Tennessee, Alabama would have 5 fewer national titles right now and probably on their third coach since Saban. Alabama’s either cheating bigger but smarter (frankly unsustainable without getting caught) or just cheating as much as everyone else and nobody wants to take a Mexican standoff and turn it into a shootout.
This post was edited on 1/20/21 at 1:45 pm
Posted on 1/20/21 at 1:43 pm to paperwasp
I can't say I can think of a time an SEC school was cheating. Don't think its ever happened before.
This post was edited on 1/20/21 at 1:44 pm
Posted on 1/20/21 at 1:45 pm to paperwasp
I just laugh that UT is stuck some where between wanting to be completely clean yet think they need to compete for championships.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 1:51 pm to paperwasp
quote:
Let's have a discussion about Alabama
Posted on 1/20/21 at 1:57 pm to paperwasp
Step 1, buy a Dodge dealership...
Posted on 1/20/21 at 2:01 pm to paperwasp
There are other ways of cheating that will land you in trouble besides handing out cash and Chargers.
Yolanda Kumar is in my wife's bookclub.
Yolanda Kumar is in my wife's bookclub.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 2:04 pm to paperwasp
Whether or not your cheating is bad depends upon where you rank in terms of revenue for the NCAA/Conference.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 2:19 pm to paperwasp
quote:
I think we can all concede that every team in the conference (and maybe all of college football) probably cheats to some degree. Some are better at it than others, and some go really big.
I don't agree with this statement, and I think it's harmful to simply accept that it is true.
It's along the same line of thinking "we can make heroin illegal, but people are going to use it anyway, so let's just make it legal".
during Richt's tenure, the only two scandals to ever come out were Gurley getting doxxed by a Florida fan who bought some autographs from him, and then AJ Green who sold his own jersey on Ebay, but the guy who happened to buy it was a runner. No other credible allegations ever came out, in a 15 year career, at a program that tried to hamstring itself at every turn.
And under Kirby's tenure, I've seen zero credible accusations of any wrong doing of cashing out players. You have 1 single notorious douche who is quoting an anon source that 'maybe" Kirby is involved in the McDonalds bag bullshite. It's all horseshite.
Although I do agree this sort of things happen from time to time, I do not agree it is as widespread or as severe as many jibber-jabbering idiots make it appear to be. It's mostly just butthurt.
Nick Saban doesn't need a booster to land a 5* linebacker. He's Nick fricking Saban. Same with Kirby and other coaches and programs. The red flags are when a nobody like Hugh Freeze shows up to a Nobody University like Ole Miss and goes from #50 in recruiting to #5 in recruiting in 8 months.
These recruits get stipends and pell grants now, they are all getting cash these days, legally. They cash those checks then tweet out the fanned out money in their hands, then all the fans of rival schools say 'Look! Bag Man visited !" but it's all bullshite.
This post was edited on 1/20/21 at 2:22 pm
Posted on 1/20/21 at 2:30 pm to paperwasp
Any form of cheating that brings into question black establishments is absolutely never going to be investigated.
This goes for votin’ AND crootin’.
This goes for votin’ AND crootin’.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 2:31 pm to paperwasp
Posted on 1/20/21 at 2:32 pm to paperwasp
A Bama fan thread about cheating? We need the Websters entry for "candor" to link to this thread.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 2:58 pm to paperwasp
Well, I can think of 2 teams that are definitely not cheating...Arkansas and Vandy.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 6:11 pm to paperwasp
Pre loaded anonymous Credit cards, ATM cards, gift cards ...much much easier than the old days with car invoices and titles.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 7:01 pm to paperwasp
Do away with athletic scholarships altogether. Everyone applies to the school they want to attend and they get in on academic merit. From that point, they can try out for whatever sports team they wish to play on. Anyone who doesn't want to do this, or can't make the grades can find other ways to play the sport they desire.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 7:28 pm to paperwasp
I think Bama, among others go really big and have been since Saban took over but are just really good at it and take a very systemic and organized approach when doing it. It shouldn’t come as a shock that coaches like Saban who run a well oiled machine on the field Also run a well oiled machine for recruiting top talent as well. On the flip side we shouldn’t be surprised when known dumbasses like Pruitt get caught giving away cash to recruits in McDonald’s bags.
Posted on 1/20/21 at 8:08 pm to paperwasp
quote:
Let's have a discussion about cheating
quote:
Alabama Fan
Posted on 1/20/21 at 9:43 pm to paperwasp
Look at the downvotes for an actual post of substance. Sad.
Well done Wasp.
Well done Wasp.
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