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Attention atheists: Science says you're probably wrong.

Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:25 am
Posted by cokebottleag
I’m a Santos Republican
Member since Aug 2011
24028 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:25 am
LINK

quote:

The same year Time featured the now-famous headline, the astronomer Carl Sagan announced that there were two important criteria for a planet to support life: The right kind of star, and a planet the right distance from that star. Given the roughly octillion—1 followed by 24 zeros—planets in the universe, there should have been about septillion—1 followed by 21 zeros—planets capable of supporting life.


quote:

What happened? As our knowledge of the universe increased, it became clear that there were far more factors necessary for life than Sagan supposed. His two parameters grew to 10 and then 20 and then 50, and so the number of potentially life-supporting planets decreased accordingly. The number dropped to a few thousand planets and kept on plummeting.

Even SETI proponents acknowledged the problem. Peter Schenkel wrote in a 2006 piece for Skeptical Inquirer magazine: “In light of new findings and insights, it seems appropriate to put excessive euphoria to rest . . . . We should quietly admit that the early estimates . . . may no longer be tenable.”

As factors continued to be discovered, the number of possible planets hit zero, and kept going. In other words, the odds turned against any planet in the universe supporting life, including this one. Probability said that even we shouldn’t be here.


quote:

The fine-tuning necessary for life to exist on a planet is nothing compared with the fine-tuning required for the universe to exist at all. For example, astrophysicists now know that the values of the four fundamental forces—gravity, the electromagnetic force, and the “strong” and “weak” nuclear forces—were determined less than one millionth of a second after the big bang. Alter any one value and the universe could not exist. For instance, if the ratio between the nuclear strong force and the electromagnetic force had been off by the tiniest fraction of the tiniest fraction—by even one part in 100,000,000,000,000,000—then no stars could have ever formed at all.


quote:

Fred Hoyle, the astronomer who coined the term “big bang,” said that his atheism was “greatly shaken” at these developments. He later wrote that “a common-sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a super-intellect has monkeyed with the physics, as well as with chemistry and biology . . . . The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question.”
Posted by DrunkenStuporMan
The Mothership
Member since Dec 2012
5855 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:38 am to
In.
Posted by td01241
Savannah
Member since Nov 2012
22856 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:45 am to
Sweet post sheep.
Posted by CrimsonChin
the gutter.
Member since Feb 2010
5857 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:47 am to
As a confessed atheist I struggle with this issue. I think I am going to give God a chance.
Posted by reggierayreb
Germantown
Member since Nov 2012
16974 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 7:47 am to
Your God is an awesome God
Posted by OBReb6
Memphissippi
Member since Jul 2010
37911 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 8:26 am to
The older I get, the less stock I put into my Christian upbringing.

However, I do not understand choosing to identify as an atheist rather than an agnostic. Why not just say "hey, there could be a higher power of some sort I guess", not think about it anymore, and go on with your life. Unless it's an ego thing, which seems to be the obvious conclusion.
Posted by PepaSpray
Adamantium Membership
Member since Aug 2012
11080 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 8:32 am to
For you douche bags posting thread after thread after thread. You're not changing anyone's mind. I believe what I believe and you can't change it.

I'm a Christo-Buddhist who rejects the bastardized Saturnalia/winter-solstice holiday that is used to help retail stores end the last quarter.

I instead celebrate a combination of Festivus and Hannukah. I have a menorah at the end of a pole.
Posted by samson'sseed
Augusta
Member since Aug 2013
2070 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:06 am to
This article was written for the religious section of the paper.

I don't see how anything you quoted makes the case for the existence of God.

See arguments against the existence of God LINK /

They are pretty strong.
This post was edited on 12/26/14 at 9:32 am
Posted by olddawg26
Member since Jan 2013
24633 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:39 am to
The same astronomical chances can be said for you being the sperm that found the egg. Of all the ancestors in human history, and all the times dudes nutted and didn't get your relatives pregnant, a perfect unbroken string reaches all the way back to your primordial parents. Everything had to line up EXACTLY perfect for you to be born, and for the internet to be created, and for me to actually be typing this message to you. Yet, here we are, through the odds, and still perfectly explainable through natural occurrences. A personal god isn't needed.


"Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here."
Posted by JAXTiger16
TBD
Member since Apr 2013
2222 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 9:56 am to
Are you guys trying to save us or prove us wrong?

I'm all for freedom of religion and keeping under God in the pledge of allegiance, but isn't the main thing yall want is for atheists to leave your religion alone. I'm just curious why yall are starting all these threads attacking our beliefs.


In before you say we don't believe in anything.
Posted by Roger Klarvin
DFW
Member since Nov 2012
46543 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 12:41 pm to
The fine-tuning argument is nothing more than a classic argument from hindsight. Basically, the assumption inherent to the claim is that life as it currently exists is the only possible way in which it could ever exist anywhere.

The reality is that with a different set of parameters, life could have very well arisen in a completely different manner with beings vastly different from us in function and base composition.

Moreover, life is exceptionally flawed. Take humans for example: there is roughly 15% of the earth's surface where we can live and function, our metabolism is woefully inefficient, our instincts are inherently illogical for sentient beings to possess, and we have multiple wastes pieces of biomass which often prove more detrimental than anything.

Nothing about life is fine tuned.
Posted by BookofMormont
Member since Oct 2014
721 posts
Posted on 12/26/14 at 2:26 pm to
I have such mixed emotions on this subject and honestly it's hard to pin down exactly what I do believe. Through my own experiences I believe in what is real and right in front of me, but the thought of an afterlife is more intriguing than just becoming nothing upon death. I was raised in a Christian home and we went to church, not every Sunday but most. I have been baptized and in my younger years I "believed" because it made sense and most children don't question things like religion. Without boring you guys with the details there was a time in my life where I thought I was going to die and I called out to God hoping that I would have some feeling of something putting me at ease and rewarding my faith. I wasn't expecting the clouds open up or any of that jazz but I wanted something-anything to help me through and say it's ok. I can't say that I felt anything in that moment of humble desperation but silence and a sense of loneliness.
I talked to preachers and close friends of mine who are devout Christians about that time and each of then just reassured me that God was there and that he just works in mysterious ways. Each of them had such conviction and I wanted to believe them, especially my close friends when they said that they just opened up and let God into their lives, but I have never gotten that feeling through all of my years of following without question. From then until now I just find myself agreeing with both sides when an arguement makes sense and just trying to be a good person to my fellow humans.

I've never posted in a religious thread on here because from the looks of it you guys are far more knowledgeable, but just my .02. Sorry for the wall of text
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