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More Violence in the South: Explains Our Intense Fandom?
Posted on 7/29/14 at 9:52 am
Posted on 7/29/14 at 9:52 am
Steven Pinker Briefly Describes Violence in the South Due to Honor starts at the 7:13 mark.
Why are SEC fans the most rabid of all college football fans?
Pinker says that the violence in the American South, which has persisted since colonial times, is not a predatory violence.
There's a culture of honor in the South like no where else in the US.
In the South, violence is in response to threats of honor in the form of curses, insults, and that "men must defend their honor with the use of violence"
SEC support is intertwined with our sense of honor in the South, we certainly chant a unified "SEC! SEC!" like no other conference.
After all, SEC TV market and merchandise market is extremely profitable, a sign of our support and defense of southern culture, not just fandom.
Our intensity on the field and in our fandom is a result of us defending our honor with controlled violence.
The intensity and the success of message boards such as SECRANT can easily be explained by this sense of honor, too.
The culture in the South isn't changing anytime soon, and neither will SEC dominance as a result of its support and connection to our traditions, our history, and our sense of honor.
"American by birth. Southern by choice"
August 30th cannot come fast enough.
Why are SEC fans the most rabid of all college football fans?
Pinker says that the violence in the American South, which has persisted since colonial times, is not a predatory violence.
There's a culture of honor in the South like no where else in the US.
In the South, violence is in response to threats of honor in the form of curses, insults, and that "men must defend their honor with the use of violence"
SEC support is intertwined with our sense of honor in the South, we certainly chant a unified "SEC! SEC!" like no other conference.
After all, SEC TV market and merchandise market is extremely profitable, a sign of our support and defense of southern culture, not just fandom.
Our intensity on the field and in our fandom is a result of us defending our honor with controlled violence.
The intensity and the success of message boards such as SECRANT can easily be explained by this sense of honor, too.
The culture in the South isn't changing anytime soon, and neither will SEC dominance as a result of its support and connection to our traditions, our history, and our sense of honor.
"American by birth. Southern by choice"
August 30th cannot come fast enough.
10
Posted on 7/29/14 at 9:55 am to Bulskinator
I would say it's because you have the least educated states in America.
Posted on 7/29/14 at 9:57 am to Bulskinator
You gumps sure are strange.
Posted on 7/29/14 at 10:02 am to Bulskinator
A weak handshake insults a southerner, not a northerner.
Posted on 7/29/14 at 10:04 am to Bulskinator
It has much to do with which groups of immigrants settled each region of the country. Much of "the north" was settled by the English and German farmers, where as much of the south was settled by Scotch and Irish, who were traditionally herding cultures. Herders typically have very strict honor codes and clan mentalities. It can be seen throughout the holy land as well. Believe it or not, but Southern Hospitality is actually very similar to guest rights among Arabs from the Bedouin tribesmen to the wealthy sheiks.
In the North, the vast majority of property crimes and murders are committed by unrelated parties, the perpetrator and victem don't know each other, where in the South, murders and property crimes are committed by related parties, the perpetrator and victim know each other and/or are family. Crimes in the North are more often crimes of opportunity (i.e. killed a guy who witnessed a theft because someone needed the money) as apposed to in the South, they are generally more often crimes of passion (guy is killed for cheating on my sister and I stole his TV to pay her back for that time she payed to fix his truck).
The north and south have completely different cultures, traditions, and origins that foster these kinds of behaviors.
In the North, the vast majority of property crimes and murders are committed by unrelated parties, the perpetrator and victem don't know each other, where in the South, murders and property crimes are committed by related parties, the perpetrator and victim know each other and/or are family. Crimes in the North are more often crimes of opportunity (i.e. killed a guy who witnessed a theft because someone needed the money) as apposed to in the South, they are generally more often crimes of passion (guy is killed for cheating on my sister and I stole his TV to pay her back for that time she payed to fix his truck).
The north and south have completely different cultures, traditions, and origins that foster these kinds of behaviors.
Posted on 7/29/14 at 10:04 am to Bulskinator
quote:
In the South, violence is in response to threats of honor in the form of curses, insults, and that "men must defend their honor with the use of violence"
The inability to laugh off the ridiculous provocations of others is not emblematic of honor; it's a sign of insecurity.
Posted on 7/29/14 at 10:12 am to Bulskinator
Look at the demographics.
Posted on 7/29/14 at 10:13 am to Bulskinator
Are you using this to justify the psycho shite that some Bama fans do in the name of the program?
This post was edited on 7/29/14 at 10:14 am
Posted on 7/29/14 at 11:53 am to Bulskinator
South has always been more of an honor-shame culture, which harkens back to the Greeks and Southern aristocracy and their own views on what was honorable and what wasn't.
Noblisse Oblige: Nobility Obliges - we are kind and gracious not because others really deserve it or because they are are worthy of our kindness, but because that is what noble people do. We are good to others because good people are good to their inferiors. If we are not kind or polite, then it reflects poorly on us and we can't be dishonored that way. So, really it is about us and not the other person.
It is why the white Southerner could say that black people were treated well. He purely saw it through his own lens. HE is a good person, therefore he treats his inferiors well, because that is what his mama taught him and that is what good people do - treat their inferiors well. But, they are still his inferior.
Noblisse Oblige has been the driver of Southern hospitality and kindness and it is what has made Southern religion such a sham. Christianity teaches sacrificial love based on the value of the person before God. Noblisse Oblige is a counterfeit of that and can be laid down at the moment of insult or when it inconveniences someone or harms their "way of life." So, much of Christianity in the South has taken on the Noblisse Oblige of Southern aristocracy from the past and has dressed it up in a "Christian" veneer. The result is a mess.
And yes, football on Saturday is a replaying of war and militias and the Civil War over and over. That is why we care when a Southern team plays Notre Dame or Penn St. or Michigan. It is Gettysburg and Pickett's Charge all over again, except this time we win.
Black and white are fighting together, but the blacks are still seen as inferior, but the whites are kind to them. When they put the uniform on and represent "us," we defend them. If they take it off, they are on their own.
The South is a complicated place. In many ways, culturally, it is still 1861. Or, 1961. Just ask an Ole Miss fan.
As Faulkner says in "Intruder in the Dust,"
I think that we still replay a lot of the past, we just aren't conscious of it. Saturdays in the South in football season enables us to relive something that most of us never even knew existed.
Noblisse Oblige: Nobility Obliges - we are kind and gracious not because others really deserve it or because they are are worthy of our kindness, but because that is what noble people do. We are good to others because good people are good to their inferiors. If we are not kind or polite, then it reflects poorly on us and we can't be dishonored that way. So, really it is about us and not the other person.
It is why the white Southerner could say that black people were treated well. He purely saw it through his own lens. HE is a good person, therefore he treats his inferiors well, because that is what his mama taught him and that is what good people do - treat their inferiors well. But, they are still his inferior.
Noblisse Oblige has been the driver of Southern hospitality and kindness and it is what has made Southern religion such a sham. Christianity teaches sacrificial love based on the value of the person before God. Noblisse Oblige is a counterfeit of that and can be laid down at the moment of insult or when it inconveniences someone or harms their "way of life." So, much of Christianity in the South has taken on the Noblisse Oblige of Southern aristocracy from the past and has dressed it up in a "Christian" veneer. The result is a mess.
And yes, football on Saturday is a replaying of war and militias and the Civil War over and over. That is why we care when a Southern team plays Notre Dame or Penn St. or Michigan. It is Gettysburg and Pickett's Charge all over again, except this time we win.
Black and white are fighting together, but the blacks are still seen as inferior, but the whites are kind to them. When they put the uniform on and represent "us," we defend them. If they take it off, they are on their own.
The South is a complicated place. In many ways, culturally, it is still 1861. Or, 1961. Just ask an Ole Miss fan.
As Faulkner says in "Intruder in the Dust,"
quote:
For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it’s still not yet two o’clock on that July afternoon in 1863, the brigades are in position behind the rail fence, the guns are laid and ready in the woods and the furled flags are already loosened to break out and Pickett himself with his long oiled ringlets and his hat in one hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill waiting for Longstreet to give the word and it’s all in the balance, it hasn’t happened yet, it hasn’t even begun yet, it not only hasn’t begun yet but there is still time for it not to begin against that position and those circumstances…
I think that we still replay a lot of the past, we just aren't conscious of it. Saturdays in the South in football season enables us to relive something that most of us never even knew existed.
This post was edited on 7/29/14 at 11:57 am
Posted on 7/29/14 at 12:30 pm to Bulskinator
quote:
There's a culture of honor in the South like no where else in the US.
Damn straight! Us Gumps aren't crazy...we're just a helluva lot more honorable than the rest of you lowlifes !
Posted on 7/29/14 at 12:52 pm to Bulskinator
quote:
There's a culture of honor in the South
You know, Pakistan, Iran, and India think they have a culture of honor too.
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