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re: How many football games does Mississippi State win in 2013?

Posted on 12/30/12 at 4:17 pm to
Posted by DCRebel
An office somewhere
Member since Aug 2009
17644 posts
Posted on 12/30/12 at 4:17 pm to
quote:

Here was the full post in which you quoted:



Your post stated the Seals as boosters and then just listed the others as "prominent alumni." You didn't at all demonstrate that they boost shite.

quote:

One damn booster, huh?



I wasn't saying that State has one booster, I was saying that you claimed that State has more than OM while only demonstrating one big booster: the Seals.

quote:

Your endowment is $469 mil -- ours is $350 mil. Over the past 5 years, our growth rate has consistently outpaced yours by 5-8%/yr.


Link? Thanks.

quote:

More students graduating from MSU that are making more money on average over their lifetime makes this elementary in the long term. The numbers I posted show starting salary and mid-career salary. Even if OM can "fix" the starting salary deficit, it will take years to catch back up in the mid-career category.



You somehow conflate salaries of alumni with endowment here. You do realize that they're not directly related, right? Schools invest in stocks, bonds, and even real estate, all of which are counted in "endowment" figures. It's not just a matter of philanthropic giving, but rather the net wealth of the university itself.

Honestly, a bigger correlation to endowment figures is tuition costs. Look at schools with smaller endowments, then look at their tuitions. Compare those to their counterparts. You'll see that even universities which are smaller and younger than ours can have much, much larger endowments (for example, Carnegie Mellon is several decades younger than either State or Ole Miss and has a much smaller student body - yet has a much larger endowment, because they raise a shitload of money through tuition costs every year).

Like I said, this shite is way more complicated than you want it to be. You are trying to simplify or boil down rather complicated phenomena in order to make State look good. It's lame, engie.

Ole Miss isn't "getting poorer." Sorry bro. I'll happily admit that State's doing a good job of raising money though, just as Ole Miss is.

quote:

Arthur L. Williams, Jr. -- An insurance magnate whose original company merged to form Primerica and later in life a large shareholder in Citigroup. The most recent record of his wealth I can find says he's worth $1.4 billion.



Like I asked, what list is he on and when was he on it. Because Bernie Ebbers went to MC and, before he went to prison, he was the wealthiest Mississippian. Just saying that Williams isn't the only Mississippian to be on a Forbes list. I'm not sure if that's what you meant but, then again and as per the usual, you weren't exactly clear.

quote:

I'm going with the current decade-long trend, yes.


And if you picked a different decade you'd get different results. Your methods aren't exactly without their flaws.

quote:

Until you can(at the very least) close the student gap


Student gap? The difference in enrollment between our two schools is literally a few-hundred.

And our freshman class this year is the largest freshman class of any school in Mississippi... or maybe that was last year. Regardless, whatever "gap" there may be is both insignificant and easily fixed, as if fixing it is even necessary.

quote:

As is, you have about 25k more living alumni than MSU does. At current graduation rates, that gap will be completely closed in just over a decade.



Unless you can demonstrate that number of living alumni correlates directly to funding for a university (such as its endowment) then you'd have a point, but you haven't yet demonstrated that and I've even demonstrated that the contrary can be the case (as in smaller and younger schools than ours having much larger endowments due to academic prestige, wise use of donations or grants, and wealthy alumni).

As with a lot of your posts engie, you think you have a sound argument, but it really doesn't hold up to any sort of scrutiny at all.

quote:

I guess no "inferiority complex" was passed on to me from my parents -- while that's the only possible explanation for the OM "superiority complex" that's still very real.



Or the fact that State and Starkville are lame as hell and you're an also-ran in Mississippi when it comes to national media. That has a shitload to do with the inferiority complex as I see it. Why else would you all do the "People's University" and "Mississippi's College Town" and "OUR State" bullshite?

You're tired of us getting all of the attention. I can't say I blame you.

ETA - And clearly, as I just demonstrated, that shite didn't die with the Templeton regime. It still exists today - just look at the way your head coach behaves.




This post was edited on 12/30/12 at 4:18 pm
Posted by OBReb6
Memphissippi
Member since Jul 2010
37950 posts
Posted on 12/30/12 at 4:28 pm to
Laying the fricking wood DC
Posted by hehatedrew
New Zealand
Member since Oct 2009
25504 posts
Posted on 12/30/12 at 4:47 pm to
He will still want or try to argue that, but he will fail. It's not that big of a deal. He just needs to deal with it...
Posted by deltaland
Member since Mar 2011
91169 posts
Posted on 12/30/12 at 5:06 pm to
tl;dr
Posted by engie
Member since Jan 2012
8953 posts
Posted on 12/30/12 at 5:50 pm to
quote:

Your post stated the Seals as boosters and then just listed the others as "prominent alumni." You didn't at all demonstrate that they boost shite.


Do I need to list every other mega booster's actual contributions to the university? Or is seeing their name on all the athletics buildings and half the university buildings overall enough for you? I've had 2 scholarship-level boosters @ OM tell me directly that they are jealous of the Seal and Mize estates that are now tied to MSU. Funny thing is that Mize willed an undisclosed lump sum believed to be between $50 and $100 million to MSU earmarked for the sole purpose of "getting and keeping a coach worth a damn or getting rid of one that isn't." Assuming that has been properly invested, it's value should have almost doubled by now. This is why MSU fans in the know lol @ the implication that we will ever lose a coach over money.

quote:

I wasn't saying that State has one booster, I was saying that you claimed that State has more than OM while only demonstrating one big booster: the Seals.

Refer to previous paragraph. Ole Miss has more $25k-500k yearly boosters -- that's how you make up the difference. MSU has more mega-boosters. I don't know how to quantitatively prove that -- but it's accepted truth among high-level social circles @ OM.

quote:

Link? Thanks.

Endowment figures FY 2010-2011
Endowment figures FY 2009-2010
Endowment figures FY 2008-2009
Endowment figures FY 2007-2008
Endowment figures FY 2006-2007
Endowment figures FY 2005-2006
Endowment figures FY 2004-2005

You are welcome. Surely, you aren't saying the lowly ole farmers have outinvested every single year for as far back as I can currently find.

quote:

You somehow conflate salaries of alumni with endowment here. You do realize that they're not directly related, right? Schools invest in stocks, bonds, and even real estate, all of which are counted in "endowment" figures. It's not just a matter of philanthropic giving, but rather the net wealth of the university itself.


Correct. I simplified in a way that was easy for many here to understand -- which assumes "all things equal" in investing. Considering the size and diversity of these sums, there surely wouldn't be much variation in interest between universities. All the things you list certainly play a major role. My goal wasn't to dabble into specifics -- but to show a trend. I simplified it as greatly I could.

quote:

Honestly, a bigger correlation to endowment figures is tuition costs. Look at schools with smaller endowments, then look at their tuitions. Compare those to their counterparts. You'll see that even universities which are smaller and younger than ours can have much, much larger endowments (for example, Carnegie Mellon is several decades younger than either State or Ole Miss and has a much smaller student body - yet has a much larger endowment, because they raise a shitload of money through tuition costs every year).

Agreed to an extent. At last check(when I was @ MSU through 2006), OM was ~ 20% more expensive to attend. No idea about now -- I know MSU has increased tuition every single year. OM is also 30 years older -- no idea how that applies.

quote:

Like I said, this shite is way more complicated than you want it to be. You are trying to simplify or boil down rather complicated phenomena in order to make State look good. It's lame, engie.

How is it lame? I linked you to the hard numbers now...since you didn't believe my original post. It is not to "make State look good." I made a post that the gap is closing -- and I've backed it up with the reasons why.

quote:

Ole Miss isn't "getting poorer." Sorry bro. I'll happily admit that State's doing a good job of raising money though, just as Ole Miss is.

Didn't say, nor imply, that they were. It's just a case of MSU getting richer at a moderately faster pace...

quote:

Like I asked, what list is he on and when was he on it. Because Bernie Ebbers went to MC and, before he went to prison, he was the wealthiest Mississippian. Just saying that Williams isn't the only Mississippian to be on a Forbes list. I'm not sure if that's what you meant but, then again and as per the usual, you weren't exactly clear.

Williams is not a Mississippian -- He lives in FLA. The list I was referring to was of Forbes billionaires. There are currently no Mississippians on the list(nor does Williams appear to be on the current list -- although I can see no reference anywhere of him losing wealth). Again, my post was to paint in generalities -- not precision. It was "clear", you just chose to nitpick.

quote:

And if you picked a different decade you'd get different results. Your methods aren't exactly without their flaws.

Of course other decades would be different -- But I'm not looking at the distant past. I'm using the present and recent past as the best possible predictor of the near future. How would you prefer I better accomplish that? Never said it was perfect -- but it's the best available.

quote:

Student gap? The difference in enrollment between our two schools is literally a few-hundred.

You had better check again. Any number that's "a few hundred" also includes UMC, which is literally filled with alumni of other institutions. Most of an alumni's long-term support statistically goes to the 4-yr undergrad. The difference is almost 4k between Oxford and Starkville.

quote:

Unless you can demonstrate that number of living alumni correlates directly to funding for a university (such as its endowment) then you'd have a point, but you haven't yet demonstrated that and I've even demonstrated that the contrary can be the case (as in smaller and younger schools than ours having much larger endowments due to academic prestige, wise use of donations or grants, and wealthy alumni).

I can't. Nor was it my intention. If MSU grads make more $$ on average, and there is more people graduating yearly, it stands to reason that -- as time goes on -- there will be a larger and larger influx of donations.

This post was edited on 12/30/12 at 5:54 pm
Posted by engie
Member since Jan 2012
8953 posts
Posted on 12/30/12 at 5:51 pm to
quote:

Or the fact that State and Starkville are lame as hell and you're an also-ran in Mississippi when it comes to national media. That has a shitload to do with the inferiority complex as I see it. Why else would you all do the "People's University" and "Mississippi's College Town" and "OUR State" bullshite?

LOL -- Hilarious. Clearly you are mad about all that. It's called "branding". It's also trying to differentiate and distance our brand from yours. In terms of marketing, I couldn't imagine anything being any more successful.

quote:

You're tired of us getting all of the attention. I can't say I blame you.

Tired of you getting what attention? You are a legend in your own mind -- and haven't done shite to justify it. The ONLY attention you've brought this way recently is negative -- and I'll leave it at that.

quote:

ETA - And clearly, as I just demonstrated, that shite didn't die with the Templeton regime. It still exists today - just look at the way your head coach behaves.

How does he behave? Feel free to link me to anything he's said or done in the past 12 months. If anything, he's the antithesis of the Templeton regime -- as is the entire movement of the university in present times.
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