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re: It’s so much easier to get into Texas aTm than Texas, reminds me of Tennessee v Vandy

Posted on 2/13/23 at 3:36 pm to
Posted by Krampus
Member since Nov 2018
5207 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 3:36 pm to
quote:

The fact that Texas requires 10% of the top students in states high schools have a seat SOMEWHERE is laudable...it isn't so in Georgia where there are plenty of seats in colleges but in the "better" schools those seats are reserved for the top 3% or so of instate students. UGA, GT, Emory, along with a handful of other schools, are on par with the best schools in the nation and they are VERY selective in their admissions policies because they can afford to be. The same is true of all states. Texas should be applauded for making space for instate kids. Of course the best and the brightest are going to go the best schools, if thats what they want to do, as it should be....but the Texas Techs and Texas States do a good job with students meaning to get an education and the state and its people should be lauded for seeing to it that those schools are also among the top in the nation and that a kid who tries in high school will have a seat somewhere.


I think you have two misconceptions about the Tp 10% law and education in Texas in general that are leading you to a false evaluation of the program's merits. One of your own assumption, amd one due to a woefully false statemenr made by the person to whom you are responding.

1. The top 10% law doesn't guarantee a student a seat "somewhere". It guarantees the student admission to the state university of the student's choice. Guaranteed admission to all state funded colleges and universities. (This has since been pared back for UT Austin and UT Austin alone, currently UT's cutoff is top 6%, but UT has the ability to adjust that number as needed to ensure no more than 75% of their incoming class is class rank percentage based.) A&M and all other public universities have to admit any student in the top 10% of their class who applies, regardless of actual academic ability.

2. Contrary to what the poster you responded to stated, Texas has LOTS of underfunded, underachieving, failing, and borderline failing school districts. From the middle of the sea of affluent suburbs in northern DFW (I live in the middle of this sea too), it can certainly seem like every high school in DFW is incredibly competitive, but that's absolutely not true. We just have to drive 30+ minutes to see the other side of the coin from here. And all those underfunded, failing schools have a 10% of their graduating class too.

The reality of the top 10% law is that lot and lots of kids graduate from crappy schools in the top 10% of their class, but are basically remedial students with Jr. High reading levels, and struggling to do basic algebra.

But by law A&M HAS to admit them. And UT too if they end up top 6%.

The reality is those kids would be much better off at Tech, UNT, UH, SHSU, etc. Where the coursework is less rigorous, less competitive, and there are more remedial services available to help get them up to college level coursework that they have never seen before. Instead they matriculate in Austin or College Station, and fail out before the end of their freshman year. At which point the well prepared kids from high performing districts who finished outside the top 10% and got deferred admission through a community college or satellite campus coming out of high school, tranfer in to fill those spots.

Top 10% hasn't done anything but put the ambitious kids from failing schools even further behind by saddling them with a year of failing grades on their transcripts to overcome in addition to their overall academic underpreparedness.
Posted by UThomas
Member since Aug 2021
70 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 4:05 pm to
quote:

quote:
Interestingly, Tech has a slightly lower acceptance rate than A&M. But much lower scores of those accepted...


And what does that tell you?


That A&M fans should spend much more time dunking on Tech than acting like A&M is academic (or sports) peers with UT Austin?

quote:

The kids have to be in top 10 percent and take required courses, score well on ACT or SAT to get into A&M.


Please people stop saying you have to be in top 10% of your class to get into A&M. Barely half are (56% in 2021). This is published annually and easily findable.
Posted by MurphyGator
Member since Jul 2021
1014 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 4:49 pm to
I seriously doubt many kids you like you described from the less desirable schools within a 30 minute drive of the Northern DFW suburbs are applying to A&M or Texas. Now, I could see kids living in more rural areas of the state falling into the trap you described. There’s no way that a school in a place like Flint, Texas would be comparable to a school like Plano West. That’s why the law is ridiculous. It’s like kids who attend competitive high schools are being punished. My kid would have loved to not have had to take AP Physics and AP Calculus, but not doing so would have meant potentially losing a spot in top 6% and the loss of some scholarship opportunities.

I looked online just now and it looks like A&M’s undergrad population (56, 723) is less than 16,000 more students than UT-Austin (40, 916) as of Fall 2021 enrollment data. That’s not quite as big of a difference as I had thought it was. UT-Austin is also in the top 10 largest undergrad universities in the country. Which is obviously too big as well. So, when do you think the top 10 and top 6 laws will change? When A&M runs out of land to build on?
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 4:51 pm
Posted by hookem33
Dripping Springs, Tx
Member since Jun 2022
1140 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 5:22 pm to
Can't believe I am being forced to compliment a&m but it is a great university. Glad my daughter got into texas but a&m would have been her 2nd choice and she would have received a great education there.
I need a shower now.
Posted by JJxvi
Houston, TX
Member since Aug 2011
368 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 5:51 pm to
The way that the applicant pool and the admissions standards have skewed in this state have lead to kind of a weird result when it comes to A&M and Texas. Texas admits a very large Asian population. I believe it is easily double or more the percentage that A&M, Tech, or even a private school like Baylor gets. The other weird thing is that Texas is overwhelmingly female while A&M is overwhelmingly male. Girls are doing better than boys in school these days by quite a bit (esp in terms of raw number going to college), but still most Universities are in like the 52-48 female-male range or so. Texas is like 56 or 57% female. Perhaps not unsurprisingly then, A&M and Tech both have more males which is unusual. Tech is just slightly more than half, but I believe A&M is something like 54% male.
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 5:55 pm
Posted by UThomas
Member since Aug 2021
70 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 6:12 pm to
Its interesting indeed, but in case anyone is wondering if this disparity the OP is claiming is new, here are the published stats from almost 15 years ago (you know, before guys in church were sharing that Austin ran out of space and A&M HAD to grow, or that Texas is only now more selective because they are allowed the 6% vs the 10% rule):

School A:
Applicants: 28k
Top 10% Applicants: 70%
% of Applicants Accepted: 51%

School B:
Applicants: 23k
Top 10% Applicants: 49%
% of Applicants Accepted: 69%

This is before one of the schools spent a decade to add 16k students to their total enrollment figures and #SEC.

So I think the verdict is in favor of the original premise unless people object to the word "much"
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 6:13 pm
Posted by Wellborn
Cypress, TX
Member since Oct 2014
1573 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 6:13 pm to
quote:

Texas A&M is one of the easier ones to get into

You are mistaken, which is why great kids are having to look elsewhere/out of state. A&M and tu both have both essentially closed their doors to some great Texas kids, unless they’re top 10%. That’s a shite ton of students who are forced to look out of state, in order to avoid the likes of the Techs and UHs, as mentioned.
Posted by MurphyGator
Member since Jul 2021
1014 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 6:25 pm to
Where are you getting your “published” stats?

ETA- my information about why A&M had to take top 10% versus UT—Austin only taking top 6% came from a Texas State Representative who goes to my church. Not some random dudes at church as you seem to try to imply. Something tells me that he knows more about what goes on behind closed doors in Texas government than some guy on a football forum. You need to get your panties out of wad. Nobody has claimed that your school sucks. I was replying to a poster who said A&M was easy to get into and that you just needed a pulse to be accepted. Because I’m right in the middle of choosing colleges with my kid, I know that to be completely false. My kid is is ranked high enough that admission to Texas and A&M will both be automatic. We’ve just ruled out Texas because A&M and College Station are a better fit for my kid. More conservative, less crime, and a true college town.
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 7:52 pm
Posted by cutigersfan
Member since Jan 2019
584 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 6:47 pm to
that has to be an immediate ban , if not sooner. dang, just frikking sick.
Posted by UThomas
Member since Aug 2021
70 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 8:04 pm to
quote:

Where are you getting your “published” stats?


Texas Public Higher Education Almanac (published yearly)

I'll take that over a conversation at Church that misleads you to think and suggest you have to be top 10% to get into A&M, which is clearly, demonstrably false and has been since the 10% rule went in effect. May also want to check your campus crime stats... again easily researched assumption.
Posted by MurphyGator
Member since Jul 2021
1014 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 8:46 pm to
Lol. Give me a break. College Station is a much safer city than Austin. And the conversation at church was regarding why Texas was capped at 6% and A&M had to accept 10%......
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 8:48 pm
Posted by UThomas
Member since Aug 2021
70 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:08 pm to
Oh - I thought you said your kid was going to go there for school... so you only care which is a safer city, not campus. Cool.

And to be clear, you started your church story with:
quote:

"The only reason Texas is harder to get into currently is because"

Which is not true.
Posted by Farmer1906
The Woodlands, TX
Member since Apr 2009
50754 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 9:34 pm to
I can promise you A&M doesn’t have 23k or 28k in applicants. It’s much higher.
Posted by UThomas
Member since Aug 2021
70 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 10:28 pm to
quote:

I can promise you A&M doesn’t have 23k or 28k in applicants. It’s much higher.


Right. Those were published stats from 2011. 10 years later it was 42k. I.e. showing that UT was much harder to get into still before the 6% thing. As it was before the 10% thing.

It also one reason people call A&M a diploma mill lately. Almost 20k more admissions after 10 years, and still north of 60% acceptance rate and LESS faculty (seriously - look at it). Meanwhile during that same time period UT Austin shrunk enrollment, and added faculty. Same strategy?

I also find it interesting with 15k more students, A&M only had 1k more graduates a year.
Posted by MurphyGator
Member since Jul 2021
1014 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 10:33 pm to
I feel like at some point you or your kids must have applied to A&M and been rejected. You seem obsessed with bad mouthing the school. You're giving off psycho ex-girlfriend vibes.

Last thing- something you keep failing to comprehend is that Texas A&M has been put into this situation by the state government. There is nothing they can do about it until laws change. So, why don't you contact your state rep and complain if you are so concerned?

This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 10:39 pm
Posted by AggieHank86
Texas
Member since Sep 2013
42941 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 11:15 pm to
I admit that I was VERY disappointed by Rick Perry, when he allowed academic standards to be overridden by his desire to see us become BIGGER than t.u.

Big mistake, IMO.
Posted by cjohn
Georgia
Member since Aug 2014
923 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 11:17 pm to

Ok, for a poster a few pages back who asked when the 10% law was passed. It was 1997.

A&M is unfairly having to take the brunt of the growth in the state because the state has been slow to choose another university to be first tier. Lots of political infighting by lawmakers has really hurt the state.

For all the fuss and growth, A&M is doing reasonably well considering, but it is not sustainable indefinitely. It is passed the time to put a cap on both Texas and A&M and better fund some of the other universities in the state.
Posted by ColoradoElkHerd
USA
Member since May 2014
2277 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 11:21 pm to
OP is a dumbass. Been enrolled in both Texas and Texas A&M.

Texas A&M is more rigorous and your HS class rank doesn't mean shite after you enroll. You either perform or flunk out.

There is one very large energy company with a large presence in Texas which will not even recruit for Engineers at Texas. Truth hurts.
This post was edited on 2/13/23 at 11:28 pm
Posted by Thecoz
Member since Dec 2018
2565 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 11:23 pm to
What large oil company will not recruit from texas?
Posted by PerrillouxToTexas
Member since Sep 2022
5415 posts
Posted on 2/13/23 at 11:30 pm to
The one that thinks the #1 ranked petroleum engineering department in the country isn't red arse enough.
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