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Is is possible the talent isn't being developed as it has been in the past?
Posted on 9/13/23 at 4:21 pm
Posted on 9/13/23 at 4:21 pm
First and foremost this is not a flame, troll or any other denigratory swipe at Alabama. I will always conduct myself as a guest here and I enjoy the good takes I find on this forum and am grateful for the opportunity to occasionally post and interact with you about your team. I have an uncle that was a lifelong Tide fan and I've admired the team for a long time. Every time I see y'all play I'm reminded of a good man and a good friend and aside from UGA I enjoy watching the Tide play more than anyone else just for nostalgias sake.
The question I ask, I ask in sincerity. I've heard a lot of commentary, but little regarding player development. You have consistently led in recruiting over more than the last decade, yet the product on the field has without a doubt begun to wane over the last few years. I don't know what else to attribute it to other than the lack of development, yet...again, I don't hear it being discussed among the pundits as a possible culprit. Thoughts???
The question I ask, I ask in sincerity. I've heard a lot of commentary, but little regarding player development. You have consistently led in recruiting over more than the last decade, yet the product on the field has without a doubt begun to wane over the last few years. I don't know what else to attribute it to other than the lack of development, yet...again, I don't hear it being discussed among the pundits as a possible culprit. Thoughts???
This post was edited on 9/13/23 at 4:22 pm
Posted on 9/13/23 at 4:22 pm to SemperFiDawg
We have recruiters as position coaches that don't know how to develop players.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 4:24 pm to SemperFiDawg
Josh Pate said exactly that today. Said our talent is better than the coaches.
This post was edited on 9/14/23 at 5:39 am
Posted on 9/13/23 at 4:46 pm to CrimsonBoz
I have been saying this...
Posted on 9/13/23 at 5:01 pm to CrimsonBoz
Any update on 8 with the ones Boz?
Posted on 9/13/23 at 5:36 pm to SemperFiDawg
It has been talked about here this week and for at least the last two years. With the coaching turnover and having coaches that aren’t good at developing at the college level it has definitely hurt us.
Maybe we’ve missed on recruiting too. Looks like we did at QB for this year at least.
The talking heads only talk about today, not what it takes to build elite football teams year after year.
Maybe we’ve missed on recruiting too. Looks like we did at QB for this year at least.
The talking heads only talk about today, not what it takes to build elite football teams year after year.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 5:44 pm to CrimsonBoz
Not sure if it’s the instruction part that’s missing from the coaches; to me it’s the motivation that’s lacking.
They haven’t been able to overcome the challenges wrought by NIL and the portal and still keep the players highly motivated as before.
They haven’t been able to overcome the challenges wrought by NIL and the portal and still keep the players highly motivated as before.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 7:08 pm to My2Bits
That too, losing Cochran hurt too. All the things are adding up.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 7:53 pm to Syd
It really is starting to appear as though Cochran leaving had a much bigger impact than some of us, myself included, realized at the time. Much more than just S&C, I believe he instilled that “hateful competitor” mentality that our teams used to have. Yes, some point to the injury issues under his watch, not trying to debate that but he did bring a certain toughness to the players that we don’t have anymore.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 8:21 pm to SemperFiDawg
I said this on the rant as well. We are getting the talent so all this NIL or transfer crap is not hurting us as seen with the class rankings. They are just not getting developed by the position coaches.
Posted on 9/13/23 at 11:47 pm to SemperFiDawg
If you go back to some of the best Alabama teams and look at the staffs, there will be several future college head coaches and at time a few past college head coaches. Some of those "high end" assistants could not even get on the field as coaches, they were among the office scouting/self scouting group.
Look at today's staff. How many of those guys look to be future head coaches like Kirby, Lanning, Kiffen, Sark?
Look at today's staff. How many of those guys look to be future head coaches like Kirby, Lanning, Kiffen, Sark?
Posted on 9/14/23 at 5:39 am to Tw1st3d
It’s a valid point and concern. I haven’t seen this forum completely agree on a topic maybe ever like this.
Posted on 9/14/23 at 5:40 am to Doug Heffernan
Hearing he was still repping with 1’s.
Posted on 9/14/23 at 7:36 am to CrimsonBoz
I think Pate is spot on with this but even the root of this problem (IMO) is that Coach Saban has a problem getting really good assistants to come to Bama anymore. Why?
Because as great as CNS is and it looks great on the resume that you coached under him, he has such a reputation of being a 24K hard *** at all times that a lot of really good coordinators and assistants have taken the attitude of "thanks but no thanks".
He's had to resort to bringing in guys who's career were in the toilet or came from schools that no one has heard of, or haven't really done much:
Pete Golding from UT San Antonio.
Joe Cox from UNC Charlotte
Holmon Wiggins from Virginia Tech
Doug Marrone-fired from the NFL and out of work when hired (HORRIBLE coach)
I understand hiring in any field is, to a certain extent, a bit of a crap shoot but you kind of have to wonder how is it very few really good assistants are willing to come to Tuscaloosa anymore?
My theory is that most good assistants out there anymore take the notion that it's not worth the squeeze working for Saint Nick. I know some will get mad at me saying that but that's my opinion.
Because as great as CNS is and it looks great on the resume that you coached under him, he has such a reputation of being a 24K hard *** at all times that a lot of really good coordinators and assistants have taken the attitude of "thanks but no thanks".
He's had to resort to bringing in guys who's career were in the toilet or came from schools that no one has heard of, or haven't really done much:
Pete Golding from UT San Antonio.
Joe Cox from UNC Charlotte
Holmon Wiggins from Virginia Tech
Doug Marrone-fired from the NFL and out of work when hired (HORRIBLE coach)
I understand hiring in any field is, to a certain extent, a bit of a crap shoot but you kind of have to wonder how is it very few really good assistants are willing to come to Tuscaloosa anymore?
My theory is that most good assistants out there anymore take the notion that it's not worth the squeeze working for Saint Nick. I know some will get mad at me saying that but that's my opinion.
Posted on 9/14/23 at 9:04 am to Amarillo Tide
quote:
Amarillo Tide
One additional issue, If a coach makes the move to Tuscaloosa, how long would he be there before Saban retires? Why leave a good possition for a possition that may lack the stability that would justify the move?
Posted on 9/14/23 at 9:25 am to Tw1st3d
Look at the 2016 Alabama staff.
5 of those guys (Kiffin, Pruitt, Cristobal, Napier, Key) became Power 5 Head Coaches. Two others are NFL position coaches and Lupoi is a DC at Oregon.
Who on this staff will be moving on to get a head coaching gig?
I mean, this staff is just not very good. Saban has done a poor job of recruiting and retaining effective coaches the last few years.
5 of those guys (Kiffin, Pruitt, Cristobal, Napier, Key) became Power 5 Head Coaches. Two others are NFL position coaches and Lupoi is a DC at Oregon.
Who on this staff will be moving on to get a head coaching gig?
I mean, this staff is just not very good. Saban has done a poor job of recruiting and retaining effective coaches the last few years.
Posted on 9/14/23 at 9:30 am to JIB
quote:
Who on this staff will be moving on to get a head coaching gig?
quote:
I mean, this staff is just not very good. Saban has done a poor job of recruiting and retaining effective coaches the last few years.
Posted on 9/14/23 at 9:34 am to Tw1st3d
I'd say the biggest issues with all this is on the OL and DL lines with the DL being the worst. We had some signs of life in 21 but the 22 and 23 defensive lines are absolute flat liners. What I'm seeing is that the rating services aren't very good at evaluating who the good DL's are. We are seeing 3 star guys playing like 1st round draft choices and these physical monster's who look the part are basically square dancing with the tackles.
We have 13 guys on scholarship for the DL and so far I haven't seen a one of them slip a block. How can you possibly miss on that many recruits, or is the coaching that bad.
We have 13 guys on scholarship for the DL and so far I haven't seen a one of them slip a block. How can you possibly miss on that many recruits, or is the coaching that bad.
Posted on 9/14/23 at 9:48 am to Amarillo Tide
quote:
I think Pate is spot on with this but even the root of this problem (IMO) is that Coach Saban has a problem getting really good assistants to come to Bama anymore. Why?
Because as great as CNS is and it looks great on the resume that you coached under him, he has such a reputation of being a 24K hard *** at all times that a lot of really good coordinators and assistants have taken the attitude of "thanks but no thanks".
He's had to resort to bringing in guys who's career were in the toilet or came from schools that no one has heard of, or haven't really done much:
Pete Golding from UT San Antonio.
Joe Cox from UNC Charlotte
Holmon Wiggins from Virginia Tech
Doug Marrone-fired from the NFL and out of work when hired (HORRIBLE coach)
I understand hiring in any field is, to a certain extent, a bit of a crap shoot but you kind of have to wonder how is it very few really good assistants are willing to come to Tuscaloosa anymore?
My theory is that most good assistants out there anymore take the notion that it's not worth the squeeze working for Saint Nick. I know some will get mad at me saying that but that's my opinion.
Whether it's Saban being hard to work for, Saban just selecting for the wrong attributes / misevaluating coaches, all of that or something else, I definitely think we have a pretty significant lack of actual X's and O's and developmental coaching talent on the staff... and that seems like a trend that's been heading the wrong way for a while. This is a hot take, I guess, but, looking at the staff, there are really only two current coaches I wouldn't want to be without: Saban himself (obviously) and T-Rob (the number I'd like to see move on is higher lol). Don't get me wrong, I don't think all the others are flat out bad and, in fact, think many are pretty decent, but, when I look at it from a "is this coach helping make us as good as we possibly can be?" standpoint, the others just don't seem like they move the needle.
I mean, Saban is definitely due all the deference and leeway in the world when it comes to shaping this program, but it seems like something's amiss with the staff. It would be interesting to know what goes on in our coaching searches. Like, trying to look in from outside the black box, candidates seem so surprising and disparate and their candidacies seem to take such odd paths that it's really hard to piece together any sort of guiding principles to it all.
Posted on 9/14/23 at 10:08 am to FeralFeral
I was excited about Wolford when he was hired (the first person I was excited about him hiring in a long, long time).
I'm not going to say he's done a terrible job, but it's without question that the offensive line is not playing well. At some point, he's got to be held accountable. It shouldn't take 3 years to get your offensive line right.
Kyle Flood did a great job before Marrone (who may have been Saban's worst position hire ever) but he's at Texas now. Hell, I'd trade Sark's entire staff for this garbage group he's got now.
I'm not going to say he's done a terrible job, but it's without question that the offensive line is not playing well. At some point, he's got to be held accountable. It shouldn't take 3 years to get your offensive line right.
Kyle Flood did a great job before Marrone (who may have been Saban's worst position hire ever) but he's at Texas now. Hell, I'd trade Sark's entire staff for this garbage group he's got now.
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