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Posted on 12/18/18 at 11:15 am to meansonny
quote:While I agree that inches matter, there is a time and a place for everything. At that point in the game, we were still moving the ball successfully against Bama and Fromm's escape from pressure and his run gave us a 3rd and short, which was a good spot for us to be in.
For an SEC championship and a shot at the national championship, get the first down.
Kirby talks about this being a game of inches. That is a time when the inches matter. 1st down. 2nd down. 3rd down. It doesn't matter.
There was an unblocked defender running full-speed right at Fromm just a couple of yards away from the first down marker, so Fromm had to make the decision to either put his body on the line for another yard or two in a 2nd down situation or take what he could get and then get down to protect himself and try to pick up the extra yards on the next play. He took the safe option, which is also the option that he has likely had pounded into his head over and over for two seasons. The game wasn't on the line on that play and because it was only 2nd down, it was reasonable for him to slide after a decent gain and trust his coaches and team to execute on the next play.
Like I said previously, if the (unblocked) defender doesn't make a play to tip the ball on the next play, it's likely an easy conversion and we continue the drive and no one complains about the slide.
It's easy to scrutinize every decision in every play when the outcome is already known and find faults, but it's still my position that what Fromm did was textbook given the circumstances. The down-to-distance does matter in football strategy and if Fromm goes for the extra few yards and gets laid out and taken off the field, he would be criticized for risking the game trying to be a hero when it wasn't necessary on that play.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 11:21 am to FooManChoo
quote:
The game wasn't on the line on that play and because it was only 2nd down
When you're playing Alabama, the game is on the line on every single play. We should know this more than any other fan base by now.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 11:38 am to djsdawg
quote:True to a point. All that matters is the scoreboard at the end of the game when you're talking about wins and losses, however statistics don't tell a complete story. For instance, Tua had his worst performance of his short career against us, yet he wasn't as bad as the statistics show. He had a few dropped passes that could have been huge for Bama including one that would have resulted in a TD and a big uptick in the yards column for Tua. The statistics don't show good/bad decisions and good/bad throws. They only show numbers that resulted from the play, which is why you have to actually watch games to understand what actually happened.
In the end, thats all that matters.
quote:Thanks, but I did say "statistically", and as I just said, there's a difference between poor statistics and poor performance; sometimes there is a correlation and sometimes there isn't. This is a team game and QBs have to rely on a lot more than themselves to make their stats look good. Throwing dimes in perfect locations and making all the right decisions doesn't matter if the WRs don't catch them, for instance. All that stat sheet shows is the incomplete pass.
At least you can admit it was a rough ending. Thats more than some others I have encountered. Respect for that.
quote:Easier said than done. You still have to account for playing against one of the best defenses in the country. Fields was in for a pass play, saw his target was covered and scrambled, but he was spied and didn't pick up much at all. Scrambling is only helpful if there's a place to scramble to.
Scramble and make something positive happen to keep the drive alive.
Also, "mak[ing] something happen" isn't always possible when the defense locks down the receivers. When you roll out to one side of the field to escape pressure, it basically cuts the field in half and forces everything to that sideline. If the receivers are covered, the only thing a QB can do is try to pick up a couple of yards with their feet or throw the ball away. Fromm had to throw the ball away a few times because of the coverage.
quote:The play against Vandy was on 3rd down, which is a different scenario compared to a 1st or 2nd down run. The downs actually matter and I'm surprised you don't seem to understand that.
The same CKS who lost his mind when Fromm ran out of bounds before the 1st down marker vs Vandy in 2017? If he has been advised to slide before a 1st down, and the Vandy game doesnt support that idea, I doubt it was meant to be applied to a do or die game.
quote:Risking your body unnecessarily isn't ballsy; it's stupid. You have to play smart football and laying out for a first down when it isn't absolutely necessary (3rd or 4th down situation) against a big, fast, and physical defense is asking for trouble. Defenders love a scrambling QB because they can get a free hit on them, and that's why QBs need to be protected. If you pick up the first down but your QB is out for the rest of the game, it's likely that wasn't a good trade off.
Having the balls to get that extra yard running certainly wasnt one of the reasons why he didnt get his job back. Besides, thats just one example. Go back and look at the few teams who beat Bama, and you will see QB's who go for the extra yards. Every yard is needed to beat Bama.
And we were beating Bama just fine without those "extra yards" earlier in the game. Our defense couldn't stop a hot Hurts and their defense stepped up and made plays at the right time to prevent us from moving the ball. At the point in the game when the slide took place, it wasn't critical for him to get those extra yards. It's easy to look back afterwards and blame the slide for the loss but that ignores context and denies reality.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 11:49 am to Leon S Kennedy
quote:It was the textbook play for a QB on 2nd down.
Fromm sliding was weak.
quote:On 2nd down? No. You trust you coaches and your team to do what they've been doing all day long and move the chains on the next play. You don't risk an injury on a 2nd down play when the game wasn't on the line in that very moment.
At that point in the game you have to lay it all on the line.
quote:It wasn't more crucial than others. Had the next play not been a tipped pass, we likely move the chains and no one even talks about the slide. It was only "crucial" in the eyes of many because we now know the outcome of the game. You can do that to literally any game and second guess a decision that was made in real-time after the fact given knowledge of what was unknown at the time.
It was crucial play he came up short on.
I'm sure had Fromm known that the next play would result in a tipped pass, he would have tried to pick up the first down, but that's not how football works. You make plays based on risk vs. reward in the situation that you find yourself, and 2nd down is more acceptable for sliding short of the marker than 3rd or 4th down.
quote:Fromm didn't need to make plays with his legs to beat Bama for most of the game. He did alright throwing for 300+ yards and 3 touchdowns. The issue was that our defense wasn't prepared for Hurts to come out on fire (he scrambled more than Tua was/did) and we paid for selling out to the pass. Bad field position on the fake punt ultimately killed us. Bama's defense played really well late in the game and brought more pressure than we were able to handle. You should also remember that our QB with legs wasn't able to run the ball very well against them in his short time in the game.
Bama bear us because their QB made the plays with his legs in addition to his arm.
Posted on 12/18/18 at 12:41 pm to VADawg
quote:Any individual play can change the outcome of the game but you still have to play smart, disciplined football to beat them. The slide from Fromm on 2nd down when protection busted was disciplined. The execution of the fake punt was not. The fake punt had more of an impact on the outcome than the slide, as we had an immediate turnover on downs from the punt vs. another try to convert after the slide.
When you're playing Alabama, the game is on the line on every single play. We should know this more than any other fan base by now.
Football is situational and the best course of action is determined based on the situation. A slide on 1st or 2nd down is preferred to protect the QB but on 3rd or 4th down, it's preferable to risk it to move the chains.
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