re: Haselwood's comments about our staff

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All we know is He needed to do more than he did.

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Everyone did.

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Great QBs find ways to make plays even when the defense "turns up the heat". Vince Young against USC, Deshaun Watson and Cardale Jones (who wasn't even a great QB) against Alabama, Jameis Winston against Auburn, etc...

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It's great and all to say that great QBs can just get it done, but sometimes great QBs can't get it done on their own. It's why this is a team game.

What you're really saying (especially with the other guys you chose to list as examples), is that "mak[ing] plays" means that we have to have a true dual-threat QB who will run with the ball. If that's what you mean, then say so. Don't beat around the bush. You guys think Fromm can't get it done because he's slow on his feet, at least compared to someone like Fields.

Two things about that:

1) Fromm was doing just fine against Bama without having to use his feet other than to step up in the pocket a little. You can beat great teams with a smart QB when an offense executes and your defense steps up. Tom Brady does it all the time and people make memes about him when he runs with the ball because he's so slow (not saying Fromm is Brady).

2) Great DT QBs can't always get it done, either. We beat Mayfield and Bama beat Murray. Murray had similar passing stats as Fromm in the SECCG but had over 100 yards rushing with a rushing TD and they were still unable to keep the game as close as we did (and they never led, like we did). Likewise Tua only had 9 yards rushing in that game and did all of his damage with his arm (like Fromm does). Even Lawrence did all his damage with his arm aganst Bama save for one long run to keep the clock churning at the end of the game when the outcome was already decided. Tua was completely shut down running, too.

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When spied, opportunities elsewhere should open up.

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Possibly, but Fields was not looking for his 3rd and 4th progressions. He was looking at his first target and then pulling the ball down. If he kept doing that, it would have been fairly easy for a decent defense to shut him down.

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Not realistic.

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It's very realistic. It happens every game day. Sure, not every play will work out that way, but we're talking about over the course of the game. If we have to rely on our QB to be escaping pressure all day, there's something wrong. Either our OL isn't blocking, our receivers aren't getting open, our QB isn't going through his progressions fast enough, or the plays are taking too long to develop (among other possibilities).

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A very good defense is going to find cracks. The best way to counter a crack is with an athletic qb doing things at the spur of the moment.

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That's one way to do it, sure, but we can also do that by being more creative with our play calling.

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Turning punts into first downs and points is essential and it wins games. Watching other games, we see it happen so often.

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That's very true but you seem to think that everything would be different if Fromm were more athletic. Not necessarily. Maybe we extend some drives here and there but when a pass gets tipped at the line or a defender makes a good play on a thrown ball, a QB being athletic isn't going to necessarily change that. We had a few drives stopped short in the 2nd half of the SECCG because Bama made good defensive plays, not because our offense (or QB) just wasn't athletic enough.

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Had Fromm blocked better our RBs would have run for a couple more TDs, and had Fromm blocked better the Bama defense wouldn't have pressured him so he could have passed for a couple more TDs. Maybe caught a TD too. It was all Fromms fault.

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With some of you guys, it's never Fromm's fault. Was it Fromm's fault when he slid 2 yards shy of a first down when he could have easily picked it up to extend the drive on third down? All because he didn't want to take a hit. Was it Fromm's fault that he never saw a wide open Nauta on another third down that would have extended another drive? Perhaps we score on one of those drives if he doesn't miss those two conversions.

Fromm was spectacular the first 40 minutes of the game. Unfortunately, it's a 60 minutes game and for the second straight time against Bama we don't do shite on offense in the last quarter and half. No, Fromm isn't the only one to blame, but he is the QB and QBs get most of the blame and most of the credit. There were many things that cost us. The defense needed to get a stop, no doubt. The problem is they got tired because the offense didn't stay on the field. Should Blankenship have made the field goal? Of course! Should the OL have blocked better in the last 10 minutes, which was really the only time they weren't fantastic? Yes! Nobody is just blaming Fromm. He's the leader and the QB. It goes with the territory.

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He didn't need to put up numbers that ridiculous for us to win. He just needed to move the ball enough in the 4th quarter to get us an extra 7-10 points and to allow the defense to rest.

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Let's go through the 2nd half drives that did not end in a score or a scoring attempt (the last 5 drives):

Drive 1: 3 RB rushes and a punt. Fromm didn't throw the ball or have an opportunity to scramble to pick up yards.

Drive 2: Picked up a first down before "the slide" on the following second down and then a unblocked defender makes a play to tip a ball that looks like an easy first down catch otherwise. We've already discussed "the slide", but even if he was wrong to do that (he wasn't, IMO), we still convert on 3rd down if Bama doesn't make a great play.

Drive 3: After a first down, Bama makes a good play to knock a ball down on first down. 2nd down is a good roll out throw and catch, but we didn't pick up the first down on that one. 3rd down Bama brings the house and two defenders run straight up the middle unblocked. Nothing for Fromm to do except throw it away.

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It's after this drive that Alabama marches down the field in 16 plays and takes over 7 minutes off the clock
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Drive 4: Enter Justin Fields and his pure athleticism. He rushes for one yard. Fromm comes back in and throws a beautiful lob pass to Swift in the face of pressure for 24 yards and a first down. RB run for a loss of a yard, then pressure in Fromm's face (and his target covered) forces a throw away. 3rd and long and Fromm throws a ball to a tight window for Hardman who has the ball knocked away. It's possible that if Hardman catches the ball in front of him that he holds on to it, but either way it was a good defensive play. That leads to the infamous fake punt. Fromm could have possibly made a better throw to Hardman, but otherwise it's tough to pin that drive on him alone.

Drive 5: Final drive to try to tie it up. After a few plays, we pick up a first down. Next play, Fromm is sacked because OL can't block. Bama sends three men, one from the left, one from the right, and one up the middle. No where for even an "athletic" QB to run, much less for Fromm. Next play is a deep ball to Ridley that probably should've been a PI call (but it's against Bama, so...), then finally the hail mary incompletion. Being "athletic" wouldn't have helped much on that drive because it was all passing plays to pick up huge chunks of yards.

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The defense got tired because the offense didn't do squat in the last 20 minutes of the game, which is the same thing that happened in the national championship game.

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That 7-minute drive that Bama had didn't help, either. We need to extend drives but sometimes the defense just plays better than your offense, which is what Bama did to us. The fake punt attempt didn't help things, either, as it was almost guaranteed points for Bama when it was still tied up.

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The team and Fromm have got to step up when it matters most in the most important games and he didn't do that, and the team didn't either.

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Define "step up" in this situation. Perhaps our OL should have stepped it up a notch. Perhaps Fromm could have better a little more accurate with some of his throws. But there was nothing there that likely would have been changed by Fromm doing better than what he did based on what I was watching. Sometimes you do your best and it's not good enough. Bama stepped it up in the 2nd half and we didn't adjust, or we couldn't stop them.

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There were other issues as well, like Blankenship missing a chip shot FG to give us a 17 point lead, and yes, the defense getting a stop. The problem is when the offense disappears for 20 minutes, the defense is going to get tired against a great team like Bama. That's why Clemson won, in addition to being better. They stomped on Bama's throat when they had them down. We let them back up. It's killer instinct.

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I agree mostly. Some of it is "killer instinct" by the team and some of it is by the coaches. I think our offensive game plan sputtered in the 2nd half, at least after the first few drives, and our defense wasn't able to step it up to close out the game. Some of it was letting them back up (the fake punt, for instance) and some of it was them pulling themselves up. We are focusing so much on what our team did and did not do that we seem to be forgetting that Alabama had a good team this season and played really, really well in the 2nd half to get back into it and come out on top.

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Calling Jameis Winston a DT QB just made me laugh.

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He's athletic and can run with the ball if he wants/needs to, which is what the criticism against Fromm has been about.

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Great QBs don't get rattled and can make the big time throws in big time situations against great defenses. Fromm did it for three quarters. That's not good enough to win a national title.

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If you think Fromm got rattled, you weren't watching. It wasn't about making great throws but Bama's defense making great plays on the ball or getting pressure in Fromm's face. Or are you going to tell me that Fromm gets more nervous and "rattled" as the game goes on vs. when it starts?

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Joe Flacco, who no one will ever mistake for a duel threat QB, carried the Ravens to a Super Bowl in 2012 by making great throws against very good defenses.

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Exactly. I mentioned Tom Brady earlier. There are still QBs who can lead teams to wins without relying on their legs, which is my entire point. However, you still need to have a great supporting cast to win championships.

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With some of you guys, it's never Fromm's fault.

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Not true. He's made his share of mistakes. I, for one, just don't take kindly to ignorant blame statements where they are unwarranted.

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Was it Fromm's fault when he slid 2 yards shy of a first down when he could have easily picked it up to extend the drive on third down? All because he didn't want to take a hit.

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If you're talking about the SECCG, it was a run on 2nd down, not 3rd down, which makes all the difference in the world. The next play would have been a conversion if a Bama defender didn't come unblocked off the edge and tip the ball.

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Was it Fromm's fault that he never saw a wide open Nauta on another third down that would have extended another drive? Perhaps we score on one of those drives if he doesn't miss those two conversions.

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If it's the play I'm thinking of, Nauta wasn't wide open but had a defender trailing right behind him. Regardless, I'm OK with blaming Fromm for not always seeing the open man when there are multiple targets on the field. He can get better there.

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Fromm was spectacular the first 40 minutes of the game. Unfortunately, it's a 60 minutes game and for the second straight time against Bama we don't do shite on offense in the last quarter and half.

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If you want to talk specifics, talk specifics. A game is made of up of halves, which are made up of quarters, which are made up of possessions, which are made up of individual plays, which are played by individual players. If you want to point blame (like you tried to above) for specific plays, feel free, but saying that he should be blamed for the lack of production for the offense as a whole is suspect unless you can pick apart each play and assign the fault.

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No, Fromm isn't the only one to blame, but he is the QB and QBs get most of the blame and most of the credit.

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While that's true, it's also simplistic. If you want to assign blame, point to where the problem actually lies. It can be the QB, the OL, the WRs, the RBs, the coaches, the refs, or it could just be that the defense out-played the offense. There are a lot of things to look at.

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There were many things that cost us. The defense needed to get a stop, no doubt. The problem is they got tired because the offense didn't stay on the field.

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That's part of it. Bama also had that 7-minute drive that took some of the wind out of our sails. Our offense needed to do better but we also got a little uncreative with play-calling that put us in bad positions to extend the drives. Bama's defense also executed very, very well.

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Should Blankenship have made the field goal? Of course! Should the OL have blocked better in the last 10 minutes, which was really the only time they weren't fantastic? Yes! Nobody is just blaming Fromm. He's the leader and the QB. It goes with the territory.

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Considering this discussion turned into another Fields vs. Fromm argument, yes, I would say there are several people specifically blaming Fromm for us not winning a national championship or playing for one again this past season.

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I haven’t even mentioned fields, so why are you bringing him up?

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Context. You were saying that a QB needs to do more with his legs, with the implication that Fromm isn't capable of doing so with his level of athleticism. Given the context of Fromm vs. Fields, it was obvious to see the connection: we need someone more like Fields because we need a QB who can get it done with his legs.

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Since you did, I will point out experience is what he needs to become a complete qb, and we weren’t able to give him that.

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Seriously? He could have stood on the sidelines with a clipboard all season but he got premium snaps during real plays against 1st string defenses early in the games. He got a lot more experience than any other 2nd string QB should have gotten with a healthy starting QB still in the mix.

Fields needed time with the program. He needed to observe Fromm's habits and learn how to read defenses better. He needed to do what a typical QB does during a RS season except try to apply it in the games, because he had a lot of opportunities for it. He needed another spring, summer, and fall camp. He needed to continue to compete.

Experience? He got boatloads of that.

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That’s usually what it takes to Beat bama, and it’s no coincidence, and they don’t have to be true dual threats to do It.

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In both games we've played, Fromm has not been in the top 5 reasons we've lost IMO.