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Big difference between 2012 and 2017
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:34 am
Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:34 am
One of the biggest differences for me in between this season and 2012 (last great UGA season) is the way we’ve been able to capitalize on this in recruiting and the way we’ve grown the UGA brand nationally.
In 2013 we signed the 12th ranked recruiting class (7th in SEC) with 15 four-stars, 18 three-stars, and 1 two-star. There was only one top 100 player in that class, and 4 out of our top 7 recruits transferred.
This year we have the #1 recruiting class with 6 five-stars, 12 four-stars, and 5 three-stars currently in the class and 10(!!!) top 100 players. That’s how you keep yourself at the top. We have top 2 players from the states of Tennessee, Illinois, North Carolina, and South Carolina.
The loss against Bama hurts, and always will, but those seniors staying and this season we’ve had have completely changed the way we’re looked at and puts us in an incredible place going forward and I’ll forever be thankful for that. When (not if) we win a National Championship in the next 5-10 years, I’ll look at this group of guys (especially Nick and Sony) and be incredibly thankful for them and think they’re equally as deserving of the Title whenever it happens.
Sorry for the brief rant (that I realize is slightly incoherent from time to time), and I’ll probably take a break talking football for the next few weeks outside of recruiting. But as always, GO DAWGS!
In 2013 we signed the 12th ranked recruiting class (7th in SEC) with 15 four-stars, 18 three-stars, and 1 two-star. There was only one top 100 player in that class, and 4 out of our top 7 recruits transferred.
This year we have the #1 recruiting class with 6 five-stars, 12 four-stars, and 5 three-stars currently in the class and 10(!!!) top 100 players. That’s how you keep yourself at the top. We have top 2 players from the states of Tennessee, Illinois, North Carolina, and South Carolina.
The loss against Bama hurts, and always will, but those seniors staying and this season we’ve had have completely changed the way we’re looked at and puts us in an incredible place going forward and I’ll forever be thankful for that. When (not if) we win a National Championship in the next 5-10 years, I’ll look at this group of guys (especially Nick and Sony) and be incredibly thankful for them and think they’re equally as deserving of the Title whenever it happens.
Sorry for the brief rant (that I realize is slightly incoherent from time to time), and I’ll probably take a break talking football for the next few weeks outside of recruiting. But as always, GO DAWGS!
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Posted on 1/10/18 at 8:48 am to Dawgsontop34
Posted on 1/10/18 at 9:08 am to Dawgsontop34
2002 is a a better comparison. 13-1 record, won the SECCG in dominating fashion, ended up ranked #2 or #3 I believe. But not winning the national championship planted a seed for future doubt. Even though we had lots of success in the next few seasons, rivals and local media began to harp at Richt because he "couldn't win the big one". More and more Ga fans were bitter because they didn't have those all important bragging rights, and it eventually turned them against the coach and the players.
That process has already started again. We had a fantastic season, went right down to the wire in the final game...., and the internet trolls and gullible fans have already begun the big whine, "nothing matters if you didn't win a championship". I'm not sure why those folks even watch the regular season if a championship is all they care about, but that's the narrative being built. Watch for the AJC and social media/message boards to chime in with regularity during the offseason.
If Kirby wants to succeed at Georgia, he has to do two things. First, get out ahead of this fake narrative with an aggressive social media campaign of his own. Twitter bots (Tennessee's favorite weapon), paid message board propagandists, relentless pressure on local and state news media to slow the negative coverage. Sports media in college football is pure propaganda, even moreso now that huge sums of money are in play. If you're not willing to fight on that battlefield too, it'll eventually hurt you on the football field.
Second, win a national championship very soon. Otherwise, the opposing propaganda will succeed with some variation of the Richt can't win a championship, Richt has lost control memes, and the Georgia fan base will pile on with a vengeance. I don't think the process will take 15 years this time, our fans are already primed.
That process has already started again. We had a fantastic season, went right down to the wire in the final game...., and the internet trolls and gullible fans have already begun the big whine, "nothing matters if you didn't win a championship". I'm not sure why those folks even watch the regular season if a championship is all they care about, but that's the narrative being built. Watch for the AJC and social media/message boards to chime in with regularity during the offseason.
If Kirby wants to succeed at Georgia, he has to do two things. First, get out ahead of this fake narrative with an aggressive social media campaign of his own. Twitter bots (Tennessee's favorite weapon), paid message board propagandists, relentless pressure on local and state news media to slow the negative coverage. Sports media in college football is pure propaganda, even moreso now that huge sums of money are in play. If you're not willing to fight on that battlefield too, it'll eventually hurt you on the football field.
Second, win a national championship very soon. Otherwise, the opposing propaganda will succeed with some variation of the Richt can't win a championship, Richt has lost control memes, and the Georgia fan base will pile on with a vengeance. I don't think the process will take 15 years this time, our fans are already primed.
This post was edited on 1/10/18 at 9:35 am
Posted on 1/10/18 at 9:34 am to wdhalgren
One thing CKS has going for him is the fact that we just experienced life under CMR. It's obvious to anyone paying attention that he's not Richt and that he's doing things differently. He's recruiting at a higher level and has his players motivated to play. Taking Bama down to the wire in the national championship game in his 2nd year is incredible, and with a true freshman QB to boot.
I don't think CKS needs to get ahead of the memes and media talking points because right now, the media is very positive about the UGA football program. We are playing at a high level against good competition and our talent is only going to improve. What CKS needs to get ahead of is the letdown by the players of coming so close and falling short and keeping that energy up.
I don't think CKS needs to get ahead of the memes and media talking points because right now, the media is very positive about the UGA football program. We are playing at a high level against good competition and our talent is only going to improve. What CKS needs to get ahead of is the letdown by the players of coming so close and falling short and keeping that energy up.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 9:39 am to wdhalgren
quote:
win a national championship very soon. Otherwise, the opposing propaganda will succeed with some variation of the Richt can't win a championship, Richt has lost control memes, and the Georgia fan base will pile on with a vengeance. I don't think the process will take 15 years this time, our fans are already primed.
This. All of this.
We have to win one and SOON or this staff gets lumped in as Richt 2.0
Posted on 1/10/18 at 9:57 am to FooManChoo
quote:
right now, the media is very positive about the UGA football program.
I won't try to convince you otherwise, because I think you'll convince yourself if you pay attention to what happens next. But I'll give you a couple of examples I've seen recently. Propaganda can be very subtle at first, but it will get more aggressive over time. First you gently guide people toward a point of view, so they don't feel force fed. Then you bombard them with confirmation material.
During the run up to the championship, ESPN anchors were already starting to downplay Smart's coaching success this year. "Georgia had 31 seniors" was a way of saying that Smart had a ton of veterans partly trained by CMR. There's a small grain of truth to it, but the number of recruited scholarship seniors (not walk-ons given a scholarship) was half that, so the effect was greatly overstated. That's not a coincidence, and I've since seen the figure repeated as fact on many other message boards.
Then Kirk Herbstreit made it sound like Georgia played an almost injury free season, once again gently leading the viewer to conclude that luck played a significant role in the 2017 success. You may say, but of course it's true, and it is to a small extent. But the point is, commentators tailor their words to build up or diminish their subject's accomplishments in subtle ways, depending on what they want the viewer to perceive. They don't use outright lies; it's their editorial control than wins over minds.
The lead story on AJC.com sports for a while yesterday was about Tech fans ridiculing UGA on twitter for not winning the championship. I predict it will be the first of many snide articles during the offseason. That media organization is no friend to UGA football and Kirby should treat them as such.
This post was edited on 1/10/18 at 10:09 am
Posted on 1/10/18 at 10:42 am to wdhalgren
I get what you're saying but I don't think subtle jabs at UGA for not having a lot of injuries (except for the constant reminders about Eason going out in the first game, giving us Fromm) and having a lot of returning seniors to help us out is some sort of campaign to paint CKS as CMR.
Injury-free seasons and strength of seniors is something that has happened for years with teams all over the country, including championship teams. Bama got hit with that a lot early on, too, but then it was obvious that they just reloaded every year due to excellent recruiting and a top-notch S&C program and that narrative died off. It will with us, too, if we can show consistency from year to year.
And frankly, I think you and everyone else should ignore what the AJC says. They don't exactly have a history of being fair and balanced when it comes to UGA athletics, and especially when it comes to perspectives from Tech.
Reading the major sports media outlets, I'm seeing nothing but respect for CKS and what he's doing with the program. Everyone is fawning over Saban and Bama--and for good reason--but I'm not seeing anything about CKS and UGA being a one hit wonder, being overrated, or getting lucky. Quite the opposite. Everyone seems to think that we're heading in the right direction and that CKS has brought a winning formula to UGA.
Injury-free seasons and strength of seniors is something that has happened for years with teams all over the country, including championship teams. Bama got hit with that a lot early on, too, but then it was obvious that they just reloaded every year due to excellent recruiting and a top-notch S&C program and that narrative died off. It will with us, too, if we can show consistency from year to year.
And frankly, I think you and everyone else should ignore what the AJC says. They don't exactly have a history of being fair and balanced when it comes to UGA athletics, and especially when it comes to perspectives from Tech.
Reading the major sports media outlets, I'm seeing nothing but respect for CKS and what he's doing with the program. Everyone is fawning over Saban and Bama--and for good reason--but I'm not seeing anything about CKS and UGA being a one hit wonder, being overrated, or getting lucky. Quite the opposite. Everyone seems to think that we're heading in the right direction and that CKS has brought a winning formula to UGA.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 11:02 am to FooManChoo
quote:
I'm seeing nothing but respect for CKS and what he's doing with the program. --but I'm not seeing anything about CKS and UGA being a one hit wonder, being overrated, or getting lucky.
Like I said, you won't see overt criticism right now. People would reject that out of hand because he's a 2nd year coach who just took his team to the finals. It starts as a subtle way of bringing information that casts doubt, then it builds on that doubt at the first opportunity. College football coverage is rarely about simply stating facts, it's mainly propaganda that affects everything from recruiting to Heisman voting, ticket sales to coaching hires.
You can disagree if you like, but that's the way information media works, always and everywhere.
This post was edited on 1/10/18 at 11:07 am
Posted on 1/10/18 at 11:19 am to wdhalgren
I don't disagree with the bias and narrative formation that goes on with the media. It's obvious that journalists aren't in the truth business but the money making business; they are tabloids that sensationalize everything to get eyes on them.
That said, I don't see any effort--overt or covert--to tarnish UGA at this time, and even if there were some effort to do so, all CKS needs to do to combat this stuff is keep being successful on the football field and on the recruiting trail. Who cares what they say when you keep winning the East, the SEC, and competing for national championships?
That said, I don't see any effort--overt or covert--to tarnish UGA at this time, and even if there were some effort to do so, all CKS needs to do to combat this stuff is keep being successful on the football field and on the recruiting trail. Who cares what they say when you keep winning the East, the SEC, and competing for national championships?
Posted on 1/10/18 at 11:24 am to Dawgsontop34
Let's not ignore the similarities either.
We're about to lose 3/4 of the starters in secondary, linebackers, and DL.
2018 defense will look alot like 2013 defense in that regard.
We're about to lose 3/4 of the starters in secondary, linebackers, and DL.
2018 defense will look alot like 2013 defense in that regard.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 11:29 am to deeprig9
quote:
We're about to lose 3/4 of the starters in secondary, linebackers, and DL.
2018 defense will look alot like 2013 defense in that regard.
major difference being 2013 was statistically teh worst defense in our history bc of grantham whereas now we have kirby and mel.
Our DL, CBs, and S will all be better in 18 than 13. LB is the only area on defense that '13 would have the edge.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 11:33 am to FooManChoo
Thanks for the civil debate; it's a topic that I've been interested in for a long time. I do think you misunderstand the primary goal of information media. For example, I believe this is a common misstatement.
That may be true at a lower level, but making money through paid views is not the main objective of most relevant media organizations. The primary goal is to influence opinion and thereby accrue power/success for someone higher up the food chain. That's why powerful people own or control news organizations, including social media, not to profit from the initial revenues.
One of the truest adages ever written is "the pen is mightier than the sword". Any successful organization does indeed care what people say, and they go to great lengths to influence what people say and think. That's why men like Jeff Bezos own newspapers and control media conglomerates, it's not for the Ad revenue or paper sales, it's because they understand that it's critical to influence the narrative on subjects of interest.
quote:
journalists aren't in the truth business but the money making business; they are tabloids that sensationalize everything to get eyes on them.
That may be true at a lower level, but making money through paid views is not the main objective of most relevant media organizations. The primary goal is to influence opinion and thereby accrue power/success for someone higher up the food chain. That's why powerful people own or control news organizations, including social media, not to profit from the initial revenues.
quote:
all CKS needs to do to combat this stuff is keep being successful on the football field and on the recruiting trail. Who cares what they say when you keep winning the East, the SEC, and competing for national championships?
One of the truest adages ever written is "the pen is mightier than the sword". Any successful organization does indeed care what people say, and they go to great lengths to influence what people say and think. That's why men like Jeff Bezos own newspapers and control media conglomerates, it's not for the Ad revenue or paper sales, it's because they understand that it's critical to influence the narrative on subjects of interest.
This post was edited on 1/10/18 at 11:51 am
Posted on 1/10/18 at 11:37 am to deeprig9
quote:
Let's not ignore the similarities either. We're about to lose 3/4 of the starters in secondary, linebackers, and DL. 2018 defense will look alot like 2013 defense in that regard.
Losing a lot of experience in the secondary but I'd argue we are getting a talent upgrade in that area. Also expect our DL to get a little bit better next year but going to see a big dropoff in our LBs. We have 3 potential NFL starters right now in Carter, Bellamy, and Smith. Losing Roquan is going to hurt the most - no way we are able to replace his production / playmaking. That is no knock against the guys who will replace him but Roquan's blend of athleticism and football IQ is just unreal.
This post was edited on 1/10/18 at 11:39 am
Posted on 1/10/18 at 11:45 am to BranchDawg
quote:
We have to win one and SOON or this staff gets lumped in as Richt 2.0
This fricking mantra of win the national championship or you're mediocre is fricking ridiculous. Richt won zero national championships... he didn't get fired for that. He got fired because he went 10 years without winning the SEC and we only represented the east 2x in a period of time when the east was colossally down.
I think we all want to win a national championship... but there is no similarity to what we saw from richt in years 7-15 and what Kirby is doing now... it would take quite some time to hit that point of Richt 2.0.
Now... if you start seeing recruiting dip back into the 5-10 range with other SEC teams hopping us, you might have something to worry about on that front, but as of yet, I don't see this staff getting outworked, and their philosophy on recruiting is significantly different.
No one sanely predicted we'd be in the title game and #2 at the end of the year before this season began. It's called ahead of schedule... you can rewrite history if you want, but not winning it this year doesn't equate to Richt. For that matter, we can't categorically say that Kirby is better than Richt yet either... for all of Richt's flaws, he had a lot of success. Kirby is going to have to show the ability to keep continuity of success amidst coaching losses as well as personnel. Color me in the camp that thinks he manages just fine.
If you want proof, look at Clemson... even before they won the national championship last year, simply being in the mix, no one considered Dabo similar to Richt or Tommy Bowden... they rewrote the book on "Clemsoning" independent of last year's finish. It was enough to secure them a spot in last year's playoffs . I'd envision that if we make the right personnel decisions, we've got a good chance of getting to Atlanta at a minimum next year, potentially with 1 loss or less. Schedule is not very daunting... at least on the "way too early" look right now.
This post was edited on 1/10/18 at 11:47 am
Posted on 1/10/18 at 11:54 am to wdhalgren
quote:You could be right about that. I have no doubts that those who control the media outlets want to change public opinion and for their own gain, whether that be for money, power, or something else, I just fail to see that as an underlying motivator for subversion of the UGA football program.
That may be true at a lower level, but making money through paid views is not the main objective of most relevant media organizations. The primary goal is to influence opinion and thereby accrue power for someone higher up the food chain. That's why powerful people own or control news organizations, not to profit from the initial revenues.
Why, specifically, do you think the MSSM (mainstream sports media) would want to knock Kirby's and UGA's success this year and how would that achieve their goals as you stated?
quote:See, you're losing me here. I understand completely what you're saying from a philosophical and ideological level but I fail to see why they would target UGA football to achieve their nefarious goals. Maybe they just don't like CKS or UGA or our history and they want to promote an anti-UGA agenda. If that's the case, they need to step up their game because I'm not seeing anything overly critical of our program right now beyond the usual "they blew the game like the Falcons" mantra, and even then I've only seen a couple of articles on that.
One of the truest adages ever written is "the pen is mightier than the sword". Any successful organization does indeed care what people say, and they go to great lengths to influence what people say and think. That's why men like Jeff Bezos own newspapers and control media conglomerates, it's not for the Ad revenue or paper sales, it's because they understand that it's critical to influence the narrative on subjects of interest.
My point is this: whether the MSSM is biased against UGA should be of no concern to us. We need to "keep choppin'" and win games and then it won't matter what is written. Is ESPN going to influence UGA fans with hit pieces? Doubtful. Are they going to kill our recruiting momentum? Also doubtful. CKS is a great recruiter and he can point to results on the field to show recruits why the narrative is wrong.
I respect your caution and distrust of the media, as I also distrust them. I just don't see any concerted effort to derail the UGA train right now and I don't think it will be effective even if it happens. Winning silences critics, and we've done a lot of winning this year.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 11:55 am to fibonaccisquared
quote:
fibonaccisquared
Posted on 1/10/18 at 12:11 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Why, specifically, do you think the MSSM (mainstream sports media) would want to knock Kirby's and UGA's success this year and how would that achieve their goals as you stated?
I don't think there's a MSM conspiracy against UGA or Kirby Smart in particular, other than the fact that UGA's success threatens someone else's success. Anytime big money, power or prestige is involved, there's always an effort to control where it goes. In college football, teams and conferences and city governments and venues and individuals, are vying for that money and power and prestige. They influence media organizations to favor their interests, even extending into areas other than the sport itself, like politics and regional economic power.
We could carry this debate on forever, dissecting motives, etc., but the fact remains that there's an inherent bias in everything you read, hear or watch. Every successful organization tries to shape that bias in their favor, or someone else will use it against them.
This post was edited on 1/10/18 at 12:44 pm
Posted on 1/10/18 at 12:20 pm to wdhalgren
quote:
fact remains that there's an inherent bias in everything you read,
Yep. Wasn't it one of the major network's people who said "its our job to control what people think...?"
Posted on 1/10/18 at 12:57 pm to wdhalgren
quote:Again, I get all that, I just don't see the evidence for the propaganda against UGA or CKS that needs to be fought at this time, and I don't think it's even necessary to try to combat any of that if it does rear its head in the future, aside from the recruiting trail.
wdhalgren
The MSM is corrupt beyond measure but there just isn't anything out there right now that leads me to believe that it should be a concern at this time. If we keep winning, we shouldn't have to worry about that stuff.
Posted on 1/10/18 at 1:01 pm to deeprig9
Another similarity....
12-13 was the last time we had the same QB two years in a row.
12 Murray
13 Murray
14 Mason
15 Lambert
16 Eason
17 Fromm
18 Fromm?
12-13 was the last time we had the same QB two years in a row.
12 Murray
13 Murray
14 Mason
15 Lambert
16 Eason
17 Fromm
18 Fromm?
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