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re: 2018 tRebuilding season.
Posted on 12/7/18 at 11:12 am to Peter Buck
Posted on 12/7/18 at 11:12 am to Peter Buck
quote:
I think Richt recruited good lineman. He didn’t recruit enough of them. I think we are seeing that the depth there this year made for little drop off, whereas in other years, losing 3 starters would have been a deal breaker.
We would typically have 2-3 solid OL... sometimes better than solid if we "hit" on the recruiting trail... but I think Richt and the staff's evaluations were less accurate on OL, so that hurt to a degree... and then beyond that, they weren't dedicating as many spots to OL either as you mentioned... so it was a double whammy. Their evals were maybe slightly subpar, so guys they hoped would contribute or be strong were maybe a little "less than", and they didn't have the volume to offset that either.
Under Smart we've taken:
2016 - 3
2017 - 5
2018 - 5
2019 - 4?
In looking at Richt's last 4-5 classes, it's a little hard to distinguish who was a "signee" and who maybe was a walk-on, but it looks like we never took more than 4, and often only one of those 4 was in the top 200 level of recruits. Just a massively different "level" of recruiting on the OL under this staff.
1
Posted on 12/7/18 at 11:19 am to Dawgsontop34
quote:
Something that bothers me is looking at every season we don't win the National Championship as a failure.
There are three things that factor into this new line of thinking, IMO:
1. Alabama's success has made everyone else wonder "Why can't we do that too?"
2. Social media and message boards allow opposing fan bases to constantly spew their "1980" lines of shite. Everyone is tired of hearing it and every season that doesn't make this stop is looked at as a failure.
3. The CFP has almost rendered every other bowl game irrelevant.
This post was edited on 12/7/18 at 11:20 am
Posted on 12/7/18 at 11:33 am to VADawg
quote:
3. The CFP has almost rendered every other bowl game irrelevant.
I see this a lot, but I can't agree. I mean, why is the Sugar Bowl less relevant than when there was a BCS Championship game? I mean, the Sugar Bowl wasn't going to decide the title then, either.
Maybe I am not understanding everybody else's point?
Posted on 12/7/18 at 12:33 pm to BarberitosDawg
I'm very pleased regarding where CKS has brought us as a program in just three seasons. He is recreating what has given Bama success, namely discipline, talent, and depth. In the CMR era, we tended to have one or maybe two of those (usually just one), but not all three. You need two at a minimum and usually all three to be a consistent contender for championships.
Just think: Bama has been a revolving door of elite talent that extends down to their practice squads for a decade. They are well coached and play disciplined football which maximizes their odds of beating the brakes off of their opponents.
Last season gave us a glimpse of what we will be year-in and year-out when our talented recruits become leaders as upperclassmen. Having NFL talent leading the way is the way to go, and most of our best players this year were actually underclassmen. As they grow and mature with more talented youngsters backing them up and waiting their turn, we are going to become a powerhouse that reloads instead of rebuilds. We have already shown we can stand toe-to-toe with arguably the greatest team in Bama history and we're just getting started.
I'm really, really excited about the direction of our program.
Just think: Bama has been a revolving door of elite talent that extends down to their practice squads for a decade. They are well coached and play disciplined football which maximizes their odds of beating the brakes off of their opponents.
Last season gave us a glimpse of what we will be year-in and year-out when our talented recruits become leaders as upperclassmen. Having NFL talent leading the way is the way to go, and most of our best players this year were actually underclassmen. As they grow and mature with more talented youngsters backing them up and waiting their turn, we are going to become a powerhouse that reloads instead of rebuilds. We have already shown we can stand toe-to-toe with arguably the greatest team in Bama history and we're just getting started.
I'm really, really excited about the direction of our program.
This post was edited on 12/7/18 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 12/7/18 at 12:49 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I'm really, really excited about the direction of our program.
Same, we were huge underdogs vs Bama and lost in close matchups. Imagine the assault we will unleash when we are actually favored. Their day is fricking coming.
Posted on 12/7/18 at 12:54 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
think Richt recruited good lineman.
And now Kirby is recruiting great lineman.
Posted on 12/7/18 at 1:03 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
I think Richt recruited good lineman.
I know hindsight it always correct but knowing what we know at present, did he really sign good ones? I'm not even comparing them to the elite megastuds pittman has brought in, I'm just talking about in general. Stars don't mean everythign but they're nice to look it, but you also need to identify and develop talent which it never seem like we did well. Here are the OL signed in richt's last 5 classes (it actually looks worse if you keep going further):
15
Pat Allen, Sage Hardin, Sam Madden, Mirko Jurkovic,
14
Isaiah Wynn, Dyshon Sims, Kendall Baker, Jake Edwards
13
Kublanow, Josh Cardiello, Aulden Bynum, Glenn Welch
12
John Theus, Greg Pyke, Mark Beard
11
Watts Dantzler, Zach Debell, Xavier Ward, David Andrews, Hunter Long, Nate Theus
Theus was the only 5* of the bunch and he performed adquately but definitely didn't live up to the billing of a 5* OT. The overwhelming majority of those guys didn't even leave the slightest mark on the program if they even played at all. A few performed as or better than expected (Kubs, Andrews, Wynn, etc) and the rest played unremakrably or poorly.
The knock on richt was that he never signed enough OL which is certainly true. But looking back, I don't really even think you could say the ones he DID sign were all that "good" as a whole. And I mean really, over his 15 year tenure how many elite, outstanding college level OL did he even recruit? Andrews, Ben Jones, Wynn, Sturdivant, Boling? Not a really good track record there considering length of tenure.
Posted on 12/7/18 at 3:25 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
We would typically have 2-3 solid OL... sometimes better than solid if we "hit" on the recruiting trail... but I think Richt and the staff's evaluations were less accurate on OL, so that hurt to a degree... and then beyond that, they weren't dedicating as many spots to OL either as you mentioned... so it was a double whammy. Their evals were maybe slightly subpar, so guys they hoped would contribute or be strong were maybe a little "less than", and they didn't have the volume to offset that either. Under Smart we've taken: 2016 - 3 2017 - 5 2018 - 5 2019 - 4? In looking at Richt's last 4-5 classes, it's a little hard to distinguish who was a "signee" and who maybe was a walk-on, but it looks like we never took more than 4, and often only one of those 4 was in the top 200 level of recruits. Just a massively different "level" of recruiting on the OL under this staff.
Agree it is better under Smart. I love the depth and quality of depth. This year shows what a difference that can make. I wouldn’t even think of trying to equate Richt’s lines to what Smart has put together in sum.... I think you can compliment Smart, while not diminishing Richt. What Smart is doing isn’t happening anywhere else other than Tuscaloosa and Ohio State. It is rare and awesome that it’s our team.
Posted on 12/7/18 at 3:38 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
not diminishing Richt
Not really my intent... I just don't think OL evaluation or recruiting was a strong suit for him, particularly in the back half of his time at UGA.
Looking at the list WG gave above:
quote:
15 Pat Allen, Sage Hardin, Sam Madden, Mirko Jurkovic, 14 Isaiah Wynn, Dyshon Sims, Kendall Baker, Jake Edwards 13 Kublanow, Josh Cardiello, Aulden Bynum, Glenn Welch 12 John Theus, Greg Pyke, Mark Beard 11 Watts Dantzler, Zach Debell, Xavier Ward, David Andrews, Hunter Long, Nate Theus
If I'm trying to be fair, the bolded names are guys that were "impactful" players in some way shape or form. So we're talking about 8 guys over 5 years. or... 1.6 players per year.
Perhaps a little unfair on the 15 class since they never really got a chance to show once Pittman started doing Pittman things, so let's call it 4 years... you're still talking about 2 "successes" per recruiting class. Meaning at any given time, you can realistically expect to have between 6 and 8 "quality OL" not accounting for draft attrition for particularly good pickups (this is also independent of class... at least 2 of those are likely freshman and possibly not "ready" yet but have a high ceiling). Just this season we saw various degrees of injuries to Thomas, Baker, Gaillard, Kindley, Mays... can't recall if anyone else on the OL went down for significant time.
As you said, what we're doing now is nearly unprecedented, but 2-3 injuries on the OL requiring substitution for at least a half of a game or more would seemingly be pretty normal. Under Richt, you'd be hard pressed to find times in the back half of his tenure where you would have felt good rolling in more than one backup OL (if that).
I don't think that's diminishing Richt, rather being honest about what was not a strength for him, more specifically referring to the back half of his tenure.
This post was edited on 12/7/18 at 3:40 pm
Posted on 12/7/18 at 4:18 pm to fibonaccisquared
I feel you are intellectually honest Fib2 and was not lumping you in the argument so to speak. Your points are valid.
Posted on 12/7/18 at 4:23 pm to MeatCleaverWeaver
quote:
Not only this, but we are finally beating opponents like we should - meaning proportionate to the talent levels on the field. One of the more frustrating things with CMR was we found ourself hanging on for dear life too many times vs teams that weren’t very good.
Life is all a matter of trade-offs. If you want a coach who can do a back dive off the platform, you have to sacrifice something...
Posted on 12/7/18 at 4:26 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
I feel you are intellectually honest Fib2 and was not lumping you in the argument so to speak. Your points are valid.
I try to be... We've all got our own biases, but I typically try to look at things from more than one angle at least. One of these days, gotta hit you up for a beer or twelve when I'm down in Pensacola/Gulf Breeze area... maybe a poboy at Peg Leg's while I'm at it. 
PS... god dammit, now I'm hungry.
Posted on 12/7/18 at 4:33 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
Why do people still bring up the old regime?
Ja! Zat ist ein goot qvestion! Zat Hitler fellow has been since 1945 dead! But alle of you people schtill vant to talk about him. Ve are nice guys, now!
- Germany
Posted on 12/7/18 at 4:35 pm to fibonaccisquared
Headed to Peg Legs now actually.
Posted on 12/7/18 at 4:37 pm to WG_Dawg
quote:
And I mean really, over his 15 year tenure how many elite, outstanding college level OL did he even recruit?
Well, that one year we had the fattest OL in all of football. Is that supposed to count for nothing?
Posted on 12/7/18 at 4:41 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
Headed to Peg Legs now actually.
Nice. Enjoy! I would crush some Spicy Lafitte Oysters and a PoBoy right about now...
Posted on 12/7/18 at 4:49 pm to fibonaccisquared
I just had them cut off the down stairs web cam.
Posted on 12/7/18 at 4:59 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
Headed to Peg Legs now actually.
I'm at universal studios this week but some Peg Legs sounds good right now.
Posted on 12/7/18 at 5:00 pm to fibonaccisquared
quote:
PoBoy right about now...
The coast of Florida is the best in the biz when it comes to a PoBoy.
Posted on 12/7/18 at 5:11 pm to Peter Buck
quote:
I just had them cut off the down stairs web cam.
If it's because that's what you ordered... what can I say... you've got good taste.
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