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Posted on 5/21/13 at 7:54 am to Big Kat
Clowney was the most dominant defender in the SEC last season, just because someone i.e. Damontre Moore had similar stats does not mean they are of the same caliber player. Clowney is game planned around, same is done for JFF, but the difference is JFF is a QB and everyone game plans for a QB. Clowney as a DE affects every play from scrimmage, and requires multiple blockers or the play to go to the opposite side of the field, thus opening plays for his teammates (which is why his stats are not more gaudy). So yes Clowney is the better player and JFF is maybe 2, CJ Mosley could make an argument for number 2 with JFF IMO. 
Posted on 5/21/13 at 8:01 am to mikeboss550
Clowney had a lot more talent around him than Moore did. That doesn't really fit with your hypothesis.
Opposing OCs definitely targeted D Moore. And opposing OL blatantly held him on every play with no whistles hardly ever blown.
Clowney was better than Moore. But not by a lot. They were the 2 DEs that were 1st Team All-Americans.
Johnny had no equal.
Now, Clowney is the no brainer #1 NFL pick and has a much higher floor than Johnny in the pros. Johnny could flop. Clowney is almost assuredly an All-Pro
Opposing OCs definitely targeted D Moore. And opposing OL blatantly held him on every play with no whistles hardly ever blown.
Clowney was better than Moore. But not by a lot. They were the 2 DEs that were 1st Team All-Americans.
Johnny had no equal.
Now, Clowney is the no brainer #1 NFL pick and has a much higher floor than Johnny in the pros. Johnny could flop. Clowney is almost assuredly an All-Pro
Posted on 5/21/13 at 8:04 am to mikeboss550
To accept that Clowney is a "better" SEC player than JFF would be to accept that Reggie White was a "better "player than Favre/Marino/Brady/Elway (the best QB ever).
"Better" in this context connotes significant. Neither White nor Clowney can be more significant than the NFL and SEC's best QBs (respectively) just by virtue of their position.
This is very simple, the answer is obviously JFF.
"Better" in this context connotes significant. Neither White nor Clowney can be more significant than the NFL and SEC's best QBs (respectively) just by virtue of their position.
This is very simple, the answer is obviously JFF.
This post was edited on 5/21/13 at 8:05 am
Posted on 5/21/13 at 8:07 am to Big Kat
While I agree that JFF is the class of SEC QB's last season. We will see how he holds up without the amazing line he had last season. And the whole holding with no whistle complaint is just asinine because every talented pass rusher in the SEC could say the same thing from Sam Montgomery, Mingo, Moore, Clowney, Devin Taylor, Sharrif Floyd, Sheldon Richardson, Jarvis Jones, ect. are held just as much w/o a whistle. Just because JFF had a career year last season, mostly to do with his line IMO, doesn't mean he is God's gift to football that the majority of TAMU fans are making him out to be, and neither is Clowney. Both are talented players and if there were a college draft id take Clowney number one because there are plenty of talented and poise QB's out ther but few if any elite pass rushers on his level in the College game.
Posted on 5/21/13 at 6:23 pm to Big Kat
No equal? Hurray 3rd place in west.
Posted on 5/21/13 at 6:28 pm to Big Kat
quote:You sure Moore wasn't 2nd team? I thought Bjorn Werner from FSU was the other 1st-teamer.
They were the 2 DEs that were 1st Team All-Americans.
Posted on 5/21/13 at 6:30 pm to nc14
Hurray 1st place in the Heisman? This is talking about individuals. Not teams.
And Clowney's team was 3rd in the East
And Clowney's team was 3rd in the East
Posted on 5/21/13 at 6:34 pm to Big Kat
All Heisman winners are peerless, okay. A few actually won the stiff arm trophy and a championship. Clowney is better and I don't have Manziel in top five.
Posted on 5/21/13 at 6:38 pm to nc14
29-24
Posted on 5/21/13 at 6:45 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
I'll see your 29-24 and raise you crystal. Show your hand.
Posted on 5/21/13 at 6:50 pm to nc14
You can the difference between fans that objectively think Johnny is overrated, or will have a sophomore slump, or will get hurt, and the fans that are just haters because Johnny gets a lot of media attention or best their team.
nc14 knows in his heart which group he's in
nc14 knows in his heart which group he's in
Posted on 5/21/13 at 6:52 pm to nc14
quote:You are either a fool, still bitter over the loss from last season, or basing your list on future predictions from the year 2013.
I don't have Manziel in top five.
Which is it?
Posted on 5/21/13 at 6:53 pm to Big Kat
No CJ Johnson so list is garbage.
Posted on 5/21/13 at 6:53 pm to Chizzin ain't Easy
quote:
still bitter over the loss from last season
I have a hunch it's this one
Posted on 5/21/13 at 6:53 pm to Big Kat
In this thread I am in the majority, no? What you say homer?
Posted on 5/21/13 at 7:02 pm to nc14
The majority in this thread think Johnny isn't Top 5?
Posted on 5/21/13 at 7:39 pm to Big Kat
Of course a debate can be made for either. I personally have no prob having BR list Clowney as pre-season #1 SEC player, because that distinction is meaningless at the end of the day.
If A&M dominates again on offense this season, then we can revisit the debate.
There is more to the list than just 2 players...
If A&M dominates again on offense this season, then we can revisit the debate.
There is more to the list than just 2 players...
Posted on 5/21/13 at 7:44 pm to Spirit Of Aggieland
Ahh, reasonsable posting.Posted on 5/21/13 at 7:47 pm to nc14
I know reasonableness is usually frowned upon here, but I felt compelled to break the logjam in this instance...
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